Digital Only Logic Proz Late Mayonnaise

[Quathamer]

Let it sizzle

*Edit*

Mix 2 has tweaks to the vocals to make them more present per Roy's recommendations, and also minor tweaks to the details of the mix.

Also, pulled back on the sizzle a little.

[Roy]

The overall balance works. I think there could be a little more 'air' to balance out the low end. My only real issue is the vocal. It feels 'stuffed up', like it has a cold. I think it could be opened up more. That's all that jumped out at me.

[Quathamer]

The overall balance works. I think there could be a little more 'air' to balance out the low end. My only real issue is the vocal. It feels 'stuffed up', like it has a cold. I think it could be opened up more. That's all that jumped out at me.

Hmmmm yeah ok ... maybe its time you upgraded those earphones of yours ay?

[Shul]

I don't know why you post on this forum if you can't take any bit of constructive criticism. Sound is subjective and always will be.. no matter if you have a $1,000 audio speakers or a $1 headphone set at some point people will disagree with you. Having said that I second what Roy said, you got some muddy freq. there that is causing the vocals sound very thick and boomy. Could be the other instruments have a lil too much boom there.

[Quathamer]

I don't know why you post on this forum if you can't take any bit of constructive criticism. Sound is subjective and always will be.. no matter if you have a $1,000 audio speakers or a $1 headphone set at some point people will disagree with you. Having said that I second what Roy said, you got some muddy freq. there that is causing the vocals sound very thick and boomy. Could be the other instruments have a lil too much boom there.

Yeah fair comment Shul, I'll pay that. keep in mind as well that we aren't posting final products, we are posting un-mastered tracks. So the mix that Roy and You and I are referencing are subjective. 

That been said if Roy is listening to unmastered mixes on earphones (which I doubt, to be honest) and hasn't got the opportunity to listen on full range, dynamic, acoustically responsive systems than he isn't hearing the full story regarding anyone's mix. If that's the case, he hasn't really got a categorically valid say on mixes and his opinion is about as useless as an ashtray on a surfboard. 

This is a forum on mixing, not on random people listening on their apple earphones weighing in one what they think is good or not. Get some real reference monitors. 

That been said, I take constructive criticism seriously so long as it's followed up with suggestions on how to solve the issue. Roy (and you) slinging criticisms at others is useless unless you have a solution to assist in helping solve. 

All that to say: I agree, it is a bit thick, though I wouldn't say boomy. The way I would suggest I fixed this is to bring in a bit of 2k - 3k to increase the presence and maybe dial back a bit of the chorus. I mixed this when I was drunk and threw it all together (bit drunk now to be honest. October Fest what can I say). 

Hope all this has been helpful and a good learning thing for you (and anyone listening in).

I love you all. It's a great forum. And maybe when Covid is over we can all do live shows again. I miss them.

[Roy]

I don't know why you post on this forum if you can't take any bit of constructive criticism. Sound is subjective and always will be.. no matter if you have a $1,000 audio speakers or a $1 headphone set at some point people will disagree with you. Having said that I second what Roy said, you got some muddy freq. there that is causing the vocals sound very thick and boomy. Could be the other instruments have a lil too much boom there.

Yeah fair comment Shul, I'll pay that. keep in mind as well that we aren't posting final products, we are posting un-mastered tracks. So the mix that Roy and You and I are referencing are subjective. 

That been said if Roy is listening to unmastered mixes on earphones (which I doubt, to be honest) and hasn't got the opportunity to listen on full range, dynamic, acoustically responsive systems than he isn't hearing the full story regarding anyone's mix. If that's the case, he hasn't really got a categorically valid say on mixes and his opinion is about as useless as an ashtray on a surfboard. 

This is a forum on mixing, not on random people listening on their apple earphones weighing in one what they think is good or not. Get some real reference monitors. 

That been said, I take constructive criticism seriously so long as it's followed up with suggestions on how to solve the issue. Roy (and you) slinging criticisms at others is useless unless you have a solution to assist in helping solve. 

All that to say: I agree, it is a bit thick, though I wouldn't say boomy. The way I would suggest I fixed this is to bring in a bit of 2k - 3k to increase the presence and maybe dial back a bit of the chorus. I mixed this when I was drunk and threw it all together (bit drunk now to be honest. October Fest what can I say). 

Hope all this has been helpful and a good learning thing for you (and anyone listening in).

I love you all. It's a great forum. And maybe when Covid is over we can all do live shows again. I miss them.

I can assure you that everything I mix and reference on here is through my laptop using Apple earbuds. I've been in recording since '95 though admittedly not doing much these past few years. I'm relatively broke and at this point it's a hobby I don't have much of a need or desire to upgrade. Plus I just don't have the space or setup for speakers. I know the setup and am comfortable listening on them. They're fine for a general overall picture and I can certainly judge what makes a mix work or not. I'm a bit tired of the defense that some people give for their mixes. "These are mp3s!" "You need to listen on a full studio monitor setup!". This is how most people are going to hear these mixes. I'll admit, I can't judge the subs and extreme low end on these earbuds nor do I really try. If I have a question I'll open up the mix in a spectrum analyzer and see what I might be missing. And I can definitely hear when something in the subs might be affecting the mix by triggering a buss compressor or something. In the end, I'm qualified to judge a mix, even on earbuds.

I gain nothing by lying about listening on earbuds. I'm not trying to boost my ego or anything in doing so. Frankly, it's a bit of embarrassment. That said, I generally do an ok job with my mixes considering. And if you do doubt that I use earbuds then why?

As for the mix, I wasn't even all that critical. In fact, the vocal was the only thing that bothers me and that's mostly how the vocal sounds to begin with. Plus I usually view the vocal as the most important part so I tend to be more critical of that. If I criticize a mix you'll know it. This instance was me going through a bunch of mixes of this song, listening through and giving a quick impression of what jumps out at me.

I tend not to tell people how to 'fix' their mixes. Besides there being several ways of getting to the same result it feels a bit insulting to say 'do this'. I generally trust that people on here can use their tools well enough to reach the desired outcome. That said, in this case I'd consider a slight overall cut at around 300-500hz. Maybe a db or two. I did suggest adding some 'air' which could mean a lot of things I suppose but I'd have tried some adding some high end. You say "a bit of 2k - 3k to increase the presence". Fine that might work as well.
As for the vocal tone that would be something that probably has to be dealt with in the session as opposed to the overall mix and notching out some of the offending resonances. Maybe around 750hz. The compression and or fx may be affecting it as well, it's hard to tell.

In the end, it's a really good mix but could just uses some minor tweaks.

Anyway, sorry if this rambles. I just woke up. I'm gonna have some coffee.

[Quathamer]

I tend not to tell people how to 'fix' their mixes. Besides there being several ways of getting to the same result it feels a bit insulting to say 'do this'. I generally trust that people on here can use their tools well enough to reach the desired outcome. That said, in this case I'd consider a slight overall cut at around 300-500hz. Maybe a db or two. I did suggest adding some 'air' which could mean a lot of things I suppose but I'd have tried some adding some high end. You say "a bit of 2k - 3k to increase the presence". Fine that might work as well. 
As for the vocal tone that would be something that probably has to be dealt with in the session as opposed to the overall mix and notching out some of the offending resonances. Maybe around 750hz. The compression and or fx may be affecting it as well, it's hard to tell.

In the end, it's a really good mix but could just uses some minor tweaks.

Anyway, sorry if this rambles. I just woke up. I'm gonna have some coffee.

Yeah, brilliant feedback Roy. I made a few tweaks per your comments and I agree it's better. Though, I will say I ended up pulling back on the high end (not increasing it) because I felt like it was getting too sizzled. I also put the lead vocals through a chandler pre with a high pass to get some presence happening. I didn't like the sound of it EQed.

[crownoise]

For me this is a reaally good mix! No need for over the top critisising posts when the level is this high, just makes the poster look stupid instead of comming with a valid solution to a specific problem. We all have our Rights to critisise but we all also can question that. For me only i can think of is that the highend can be more squared some how, maybe tilted more towards transients, like compressing master with slow settings and MB deess after, brilliant work though. PS not saying Roys comment is stupid, just saying that hej has the right to question the quality of the monitoring. Also i mean that being a bit overly critisising everytime is unesessary when the issued obviously demands some recognizion, makes the commentors fall flat, not the other way round.

[Roy]

For me this is a reaally good mix! No need for over the top critisising posts when the level is this high, just makes the poster look stupid instead of comming with a valid solution to a specific problem. We all have our Rights to critisise but we all also can question that. For me only i can think of is that the highend can be more squared some how, maybe tilted more towards transients, like compressing master with slow settings and MB deess after, brilliant work though. PS not saying Roys comment is stupid, just saying that hej has the right to question the quality of the monitoring. Also i mean that being a bit overly critisising everytime is unesessary when the issued obviously demands some recognizion, makes the commentors fall flat, not the other way round.

Not to belabor the point but do I overly criticize? (Ok maybe sometimes) And if so, is that a bad thing? Are we posting mixes for feedback or just adulation? Is the fact that I admit to using earbuds a scapegoat? Does everyone on here listen on studio monitors or on their laptops at home? If I instead say I listen on Genelecs or whatever would that help? NS-10s? I don't post as much as I should I suppose but when I do I feel like it's a responsibility to point out the things that jump out at me as a listener and "professional". I still say I can judge a mix on earbuds because 90% (if not more) of what makes a mix good happens in the range that headphones can reproduce. If I'm missing the good bits of a mix because they happen at 30hz then I'm not sure it's a good mix. And nor would the average listener. You can question the monitoring if you'd like but consider who may be on the other end of the monitoring and maybe they know what they're talking about and may have a valid point because they have fair amount of experience.

I feel like we're too sensitive on here. And it feels like we're not looking for ways to improve our craft but for people to just tell us our mixes are great. Which I feel like it's boring and doesn't help. If a mix has issues I'll point it out. And, generally, do so without being overly harsh. Maybe I'm wrong. It's what I expect when I post a mix. I usually don't say anything that a client or producer wouldn't say.

Anyway, sorry to rant again. It's just something that's been on my mind. 

As for mix 2 the vocals definitely feel better.

[Quathamer]

... I still say I can judge a mix on earbuds because 90% (if not more) of what makes a mix good happens in the range that headphones can reproduce. If I'm missing the good bits of a mix because they happen at 30hz then I'm not sure it's a good mix ...

Your earphones would be capable of hearing frequencies that need to be heard, but I would seriously question the accuracy and distortion of those frequencies.

The other and the more important point I would make is - your earphones will not be representing the dynamics of a mix properly. Because they are so close to your ears, the dynamics of the music won't translate well if you're then listening to the song on speakers. Same goes with any earphones. Speakers are critical to judging dynamics. Also, you won't have a good idea of what your centre image is sounding like. These are issues I've noticed in mixes of yours, but I think because of your experience you do compensate somewhat for these issues. 

I found that when I mixed on headphones, the mixes always sounded as if it had too many effects and was unclear. The reason for this is earphones also give you a poor representation of clarity because you're not having to compete with room noise and the sound is so isolated to just your ears. You also will have problems with identifying resonance.

My point is, the issues of earphone/headphone mixes have very little to do with the frequencies they cover. The issues are broadly dynamic, transient, transparency, clarity, bass management, etc. 

P.S. I'm glad the vocals sound better now.