Joe's Bar

[SonicTramp]

I see your argument. Here's mine. I didn't argue on the artistic side of mixing for a very simple reason: no standard to go by. It is whatever you call it, aka very subjective. That I agree. However, science is diff. We do have a standard that all must adhere to. The 'science' side is not a standard to be adhered to as such, it is more a way of explaining why things are the way they are, if I can put it like that.

(*distinction w/o difference. I am o.k. with it)


Ok, so I pick 2, bc I liked it more, personal preference, but it could also be bc I couldnt hear any phase issues.  (How would you tell if there were any phase issues - you would perhaps try inverting the phase of one of the tracks, or maybe zooming in to have a look at the waveforms, etc). .

(*Though flipping the polarity is mostly luck, I wouldn't completely rule it out, the same with zooming in. We should take advantage of technology. But even without them one can still tell if they are out of phase using logic and science. Take the basses, for example, bc they use different means to get to the DAW, so they must be out of phase. That's for sure. However, how much out of phase is a diff story. And even that we still have some hope. One can calculate how much if one knows the lengths of the cable being used. Time=distance/velocity. We know the speed of sound.)

Cool, but I was still wrong if they were out of phase; my choice didn't make it in phase. Well, your artistic choice was the one channel 'out of phase' option. It could be argued that you are wrong scientifically speaking, but not wrong artistically speaking if you like the sound.

(*I'll take that. But...the argument is: no matter the choice, phase remains, and correcting phase is the name of the game, not what sounds good)

Eventually, I will have to pay the penalty for not getting them in phase The only 'penalty' as such is if you don't like the resulting sound bc if I don't then why do we even talk about phase it's so we can describe the relationship between the two waveforms and the resulting sound; it'll become a non-topic. Besides, what you gave me was just the drums, but we know that phase happens when sounds interact.


We know that the resulting sound can change when the two waveforms are summed together due to differences in phase.


(* That is the definition of interact, isn't it? Let me elaborate. If you solo the kick, no matter which, in or out, by itself and flip the polarity and even move it around, nothing will happen. You will still hear a kick with no change in quality. If you moved it, the same happens just in a diff place. However, if you bring the other one in, you will hear the diff, if out of phase. That is the interaction bet the both.

If you now bring in the bass. It shares some of the frequencies contain in both of the kicks, especially from the lo mid down. And since we don't know the exact lengths of cables used we are not absolutely sure if they are in phase. However, conventional wisdom calls for an assumption that the cables they used are in diff lengths. And so phase must happen (bc phase is a function of time, and time alone). And since we are missing some vital info (no cable lengths), I resort to line the bass to the kick and...pray.)

**Anywayz, that's enough for today on writing for me. We still have this awesome song to mix. I came back and did another redo, while we were conversing. Started with, you guessed it, phase. I lined all of them up as much as I could. Here is what I did:

1. Line the kickout to kick in. Bc kickin gets there first.
2. Lined the kicks to the bass. Bc it makes sense
3. Lined all of them to the OH. Bc sometimes we just have to bend the rules, just bend it, not breaking it
4. Lined the snares up to each other and then to the OH
5. Flipped the polarity of the Organ ®
6. Lined up the AC guitars. They look suspiciously identical, so...

EQ first in the chain, just HP and LP, small cuts in kick/bass. Compressor next, just to control the peaks, GR barely hits 1/3 of a dB. No parallel, no FX, no unmasking. Just a bare bone mix.

I notice a significant improvement in sounds quality (relatively with my last mix). Snare is much beefier, kick beater cuts thru, the same with organ, guitars are more separated in the stereo field, less metallic hi from the hats, I hear the strings buzz on the AC guitars clearer (which I completely missed), etc...And best of all: no phase issues. There is no way any of you can say that my mix has phase issues. Science is my shield and logic is my sword. But, of course, I am always ready to jump ship. No need to hang around with a shield/sword when one is on the losing side, right? You know that.

Thanks to all for participate in the discussion. I know I learn so much more about phase and most of my questions have been answered. If I am a better mix now than I was a few days ago mostly bc of you, and for that I am grateful. I hope we all will be cool enough to let go of the unfortunate and unavoidable frictions in any debate, if there was any. It's all in the name of education, right?

Well, now you can blast my mix, not much of a mix right now, but it's damn good to start...right?