Yeah I was looking for a more drastic change with the Slate stuff. The mixes I've done so far are more like a blueprint for where I might go with them. There's a lot of different styles I like, just not the dominant modern styles out there now. Blitzzz, have you done a more dynamic mix of this at all? I'm assuming you've looked at waveforms. I've certainly watched enough Graham videos in the last few months. Can't say I've liked any of his mixes either but I think he's knowledgeable. Do you consider that big use of compression and limiting integral to the sound of the band? I've heard more dynamic masterings of stuff like Carcass Heartwork and Faith No More Angel Dust and the albums didn't seem designed for that type of mastering. There was a lot that was better, I thought that the drum sound was mainly the problem because they may have intended for the drums to be tame enough in the mix that they'd reach a certain level when mastered. Seemed like remixing would have made more sense.
The toms I'm still working on. What I wanted to focus on at first was the snare and kick tracks. There's a lot of tracks. Yeah, I could just kind of leave things be, but I'm not approaching this in a way that is meant to preserve anything for the sake of it. What I wanted to do was experiment and try some different things, see what I could come up with. So every track is something I want to experiment with and see what kind of sounds I can conjure up. Otherwise I'm just mixing, I'm not learning how to design anything or apply any artistry of my own.
I like a lot of takka's mix. It's a bit dry and has a lot more compression and limiting than I'd like. Don't know if I'd put the vocals that loud, especially where the chorus is so much louder than the verses. But it's very sound as far as basic mixing principles go.
I like a lot of distortion and saturation for sure, I hate Rock and Metal that sound so clean it could have been constructed in a doctor's office. Albums like Emperor's Anthems are amazing to me for where they can take you as a listener. Sure I'd prefer it was a little more dynamic, but it sounds otherwordly, nothing ordinary about it. Actually, I think I have a vinyl rip that was a little more dynamic but haven't listened to it enough to commit it to memory over the cd version I got in 98. The one place where I think I really did stumble onto a more 80s sound is the guitar solos. All I did there was add a very minimal amount of reverb, I think the Lexicon MPX, and a tiny bit of Imperial delay with basically its default settings. I notice that some of the more Metalcoreish elements of the solos are gone and it sounds more like an 80s band.
One thing I did not do was listen extensively to anyone else's mix. I just experimented til I got things close to where I liked them. Little details aren't something I'm as concerned about as how the vibe of the song makes me feel. The snare sticks out because in a dynamic mix, it's often the loudest thing. The one famous loudness war video details this. It does stick out a bit for my tastes though. The snare hits don't have a lot of dynamic changes to them. I'm not sure how much that's due to the original track. Sampled drums in Metal is not something I've been a fan of. That's another Andy Sneap thing. I'd have to solo the snares and room tracks some more. But I could spend months or years working on different snare sounds. Before all the Andy Sneap samples and triggers, kick drums did not stand out as much in the mix. Often they sounded clicky. The first time I recall really hearing big kick sounds was Gene Hoglan on those Death albums I mentioned.
The one part where the distorted vocals kick in and the guitars lose a lot of volume, that's a spot I wanted to add more automation to. Like I was saying, there's still a lot of refinements I want to make. What we listen on also depends on how we perceive something. My preference is to try and have a neutral system with close to a flat freq response and 0 impedence for the headphone amp.
As a mixer, my goal is to become more of a sound artist that has a few strong styles, like things used to be. It once was that Bob Rock had a sound, Mike Clink had a sound, Fleming Rasmussen had a sound, Neil Kernon had his, Michael Wagener mixed a certain way, Max Norman was unique, Randy Burns, Scott Burns, Rick Rubin came up with great unique styles for Slayer and Danzig, etc, etc. For over the last decade, I don't hear that. Bob Rock's work on the Black Veil Brides album sounds like any other modern production. Rick Rubin's work now sounds atrocious. Local guys around here charging $40 an hour could probably pull off what these guys do now. Mix engineers also now often leave no headroom or much of anything else for mastering engineers to have any freedom with.
Chinese Democracy is one of the few newer albums I take an influence from. Bob Ludwig was so surprised there was so much room for him to make mastering moves in and that Axl selected the most dynamic mastering that he did. I was surprised, but glad that in 2008 people complained Death Magnetic was too squashed and no one was complaining Chi Dem was too dynamic or quiet.
Blitzzz, the fact that you don't like what I do is something I could probably consider a compliment to a degree : ) We don't see eye to eye at all and I don't see that changing. If you tell me it's sounding retro, classic, etc, that's what I want to hear, even if it's only a couple things in the mix. I chose Burning Bridges to experiment with because I thought it was a cool song.
I've long thought bands should include different, even radically so, mixes on a multimedia disc with videos and other extras to sell to their fans instead of a cd with one mix and mastering. The CD is an obsolete product. It's conceivably possible that if someone could transform a song like Burning Bridges into something more classic metal sounding that it would draw fans to your band who do not care for the metalcore, modern style. If they came to a live show I don't think it'd matter because live sound is so different from the studio. People with both tastes would probably dig the live sound. Things are so competitive nowadays with so many bands, it's an angle worth exploring. If the engineer didn't refuse to hand over the multis for my own songs, I'd be doing a bunch of different mixes with them as well, even if it wasn't a mix that fit my taste per se.
Have you heard the multis of Raining Blood and Angel of Death? I don't think the mixer had to do much with those. I can't imagine rock band or jammit knew exactly what fx to add in if they were given dry tracks or that they would have had those fx and tape machines on hand. If I remember Andy Wallace says he often doesn't do a lot. Someone like Chris Lord Alge on the other hand, he often transforms bands radically. There was this guy who posted on gearslutz who had done a Coldplay style mix and the label wanted CLA to make it more commercial rock. Ah here's the story:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-...-alge.html
CLA may be one of the few really known mixers left that has an identifiable sound. Maybe I don't absolutely love his modern mixing style, but I like his attitude and philosophy. For the record, I like his older work quite a bit.
Sometime later this week I may approach another style of music from one of these fine cambridge songs. I'm constantly studying basic audio things, Pro Tools, plugin manuals, video tutorials. Neither of the mixes I posted here was considered to be some kind of finished product. My intent was to say here's a blueprint of where I could take this and see what kind of useful discussion we could have. It takes lots and lots of time to work on each individual track. Then to try and blend them. I don't doubt that the huge levels of conformity we see in today's productions have to do with smaller budgets and a lack of time to experiment.
As long as someone here cares to listen, I'll keep tweaking things and attach the files. It may or may not be completely predictable what I try as I'm simultaneously working on mix fundamentals and sound artistry experimentation. Thanks for all the feedback.
