Burning bridges

[pauli]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with compressing a vocal track when needed. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reason, not just because.

A lot of the time with a good vocal recording, especially like this one which has already been compressed during tracking, you're better off processing the instruments surrounding the vocal to protect its current qualities rather than trying to change it directly.

For instance, you might try compression on the guitars to keep their attack from momentarily masking the vocal or making it hard to understand. Turning them down will also turn down the energy, but with a little dynamic shaping you might get to keep the energy without hurting the vocal.

You're right about stacked compression, though... I do it all the time! Just keep in mind that before you even press play, 9 times out of 10 the vocal track has probably already been compressed several times, so you may not need compression at all. For this particular mix, I think I used a leveling amplifier (plug-in) to take a db or 2 of range out of the vocal, but that was it, and it was mainly because I like what a leveling amplifier does to a vocal tonally. In fact, I'd recommend getting a decent leveling amplifier plug-in (bootsy's thrillseekerLA is a good free one)... try using that to smoothly shave off a couple db so a more assertive compressor stacked on top won't have to work as hard.

[Obelix]

I think that I should do the version 2 of this song wit no compression on vocals, less reverb and I will sure use that reference song to tell me what was wrong with the first mix. I will post it here what I heard in that song by Killswitch engage(As daylight dies) . I think that this song was recorded on tape, I hear that they relied on LCR panning, guitars are big and loud (maybe some of them are quad tracked), snare is fatter and has more body than kick (it has that click but is not too clicky).
So I think that this is the sound you are going for ?

[pauli]

Just a quick suggestion: keep the reverb to less than a second and work from a preset that's mostly early reflections... Applied to most tracks it will help them blend together without diluting the mix too much.

Another thing worth noting: quad tracked guitars will sound wider, but every time you retrack a guitar it'll push the guitar wall back into the mix, often shrinking the sound. The rhythm guitars in this tune sound so big and powerful because there are only two. Very slight timing inconsistencies build up the more something is retracked, which can be ideal for choruses when audiences are usually expecting a richer and more blended sound, but if you ever try mixing quad-tracked instruments for size, you're likely to struggle and mix yourself into a corner. Just my two cents

[Obelix]

Another thing worth noting: quad tracked guitars will sound wider, but every time you retrack a guitar it'll push the guitar wall back into the mix, often shrinking the sound. The rhythm guitars in this tune sound so big and powerful because there are only two. Very slight timing inconsistencies build up the more something is retracked, which can be ideal for choruses when audiences are usually expecting a richer and more blended sound, but if you ever try mixing quad-tracked instruments for size, you're likely to struggle and mix yourself into a corner. Just my two cents

So I was wrong about guitars they have in their song. So less is more.
Here it is version 2 of Burning bridges

[Obelix]

[quote='Obelix' pid='29188' dateline='1424945891']
Another thing worth noting: quad tracked guitars will sound wider, but every time you retrack a guitar it'll push the guitar wall back into the mix, often shrinking the sound. The rhythm guitars in this tune sound so big and powerful because there are only two. Very slight timing inconsistencies build up the more something is retracked, which can be ideal for choruses when audiences are usually expecting a richer and more blended sound, but if you ever try mixing quad-tracked instruments for size, you're likely to struggle and mix yourself into a corner. Just my two cents

So I was wrong about guitars they have in their song. So less is more.
Here it is version 2 of Burning bridges



Anything to coment now ?

[pauli]

Hey Obelix, sorry I missed your update.

Without directly A/B-ing your first mix, I'd say this is much closer to the mark than most of what I've heard of your work so far. It's definitely a lot easier to hear the details without the excessive reverb, and the processing artifacts are improving.

I won't get into too much detail, but right off the bat I noticed that the guitars and bass guitar are rubbing up against each other a good deal in the verses... somewhere in the general vicinity of 300 to 500 hZ maybe? Obviously every song is a unique mixing challenge and this may not always apply, but here's a useful starting point when trying to get the guitars and bass to get along: assuming chords/power chords, the body of an electric guitar's tone will generally occupy from 300 to 600, and bass guitars usually sound really boxy and gross around that region, so a gentle EQ cut around there on the bass can often help both instruments. Incidentally, in the event of a miked bass amp, unless it was recorded in a really good room, there's usually going to be a periodic resonance somewhere in there, so the cut can also make compression a lot easier. On the other hand, almost any bass guitar's harmonic "sweet spot" is usually somewhere around 800 Hz... and as it happens, that's also usually a slightly unappealing, "cheap sounding" region of a guitar's timbre . A smidge of subtractive EQ around there on the guitars will help in a similar way, but lots of bass guitars also need a little more mojo to get where they need to be without gutting the guitars, so you might try boosting the bass about as much as you cut on the guitars.

I'm not hearing the clash between the guitars and bass nearly as much in the chorus, so it's possible automation might be required to get the most out of those tips.

Another EQ concern... the backing vocals and sometimes the guitars have several really edgy frequency resonances in the ultra highs. You can lowpass any electric guitar at 8000 without hurting the tone, since the musical harmonics end around 4 to 5000, but the backing vocals will likely need a great deal of care and a high cut by itself probably won't be enough. There's a bit of aliasing on those tracks, and that's always really tough to remedy.

One more thing I want to mention. You backed off the reverb quite a bit and it's a lot easier to hear the mix details, but now it's a little too dry. Too dry is better than too wet, sure. But it's good to give tracks that were recorded at different times in different places something in common with one another to give the mix a sense of oneness. Right now each instrument feels a bit isolated from the mix as a whole... try listening to the mix with your eyes closed and decide which instruments aren't blending enough, and turn up the reverb sends. Similarly, if something sounds a little too pushed back into the mix, pull the send level back a little bit.

I remember we've talked a bit about monitoring, and I'll agree that given proper referencing on many systems and against commercial recordings, you can get a decent static balance on consumer gear. Reverb, on the other hand... I really doubt you'll be able to get a commercial quality ambiance that doesn't sound weird on different systems without a pair of real monitor speakers, and even studio grade headphones probably won't cut it. Always you hear how good monitors have a flat EQ response, and that's helpful, but in my opinion frequency response is so easy to measure and compensate that a more important feature is the ability to hear subtle details in the mix, which is crucial for judging reverb tails, especially in a fast and raucous tune like this. I don't want to bash your gear, but if your goal is to improve, start saving your pennies

Anyway, you're getting better, keep it up.

[Obelix]

I see that you have new song there. I might try to mix it.

[pauli]

I see that you have new song there. I might try to mix it.

Not my song, mate just my tips.