Burning bridges

[Obelix]

Heavy metal is not the kind of music I would normally listen to. But I like to mix different genres, so I decided to upload this mix. This mix is not my newest. It was hard to get consistent bass sound, but I think that I made it ti work with rest of instruments.

[Obelix]

Can anyone give some feedback ?

[Blitzzz]

After listening to your mix for 20 seconds there wasn't a lot of things i had to say other then the things I allready wrote several times:

- read the faq for this song, listen to the original tracks, set a realistic mix goal and make the right mix decisions
- don't try to radically change the sound of the band - especially if you are kinda new to the mixing game. If the band gives you a reference mix, see if the recorded tracks can be pushed in that direction (which is clearly the case for this song - just read the faq)
- don't use EQ/compression if you don't have a clear goal and vision how this song should sound. use the reference song to check if you are still on track
- reverb is cool, but too much reverb is... well, uncool
- Volume automation is mixing in its purest form. start riding faders with automation and make smart pan decisions for every track. only use eq and compression to take care of the rest.
- the original bass sound is very consistent and works great in combination with the rhythm guitars and the kick. all you have to do is to ride the fader.

[pauli]

I just have a few comments to expand on what Blitzzz has said. Blitzzz is one of the musicians playing here and the kind fellow who provided this track, so take him seriously. I'm not disagreeing at all, just want to add some things to support his points.

- don't use EQ/compression if you don't have a clear goal and vision how this song should sound. use the reference song to check if you are still on track

I agree! Even before processing the signal in question, it's been EQ'd and compressed indirectly by the microphone and preamp. Every microphone will passively resist louder signals very mildly and that has tonal consequences, and if tube gear is involved there will be increased amounts of saturation and color with increased level (and it usually sounds great.) So anything we do in the mix is in addition to what's already been done by the recording engineer.

- Volume automation is mixing in its purest form. start riding faders with automation and make smart pan decisions for every track. only use eq and compression to take care of the rest.

I like to think of EQ and compression as something that "shapes" audio in different ways. You can radically change the sound with these tools, and in some genres that's appropriate and even industry standard, like electro, EDM, trance, dubstep, so on. Most often though, these tools are better used for shaping the tracks to help them lock together in a way that flatters the performance.

For instance, a compressor is a good tool for shaping an electric guitar to lock it in with the bass or vis versa. The attack control shapes the transient and the release control shapes the sustain, and the ratio obviously controls how much shaping is applied. A fast attack is great for emphasizing the body of a sound, and I often use a snappy attack like this to flatter the character of a sound when something else might be obscuring it. Often this is preferable to EQ as a means of enhancing the body of (for instance) a snare, rather than boosting the mids or cutting the highs, because both tone and dynamics can be shaped.

As far as EQ is concerned, lots of people wax lyrical about spectral separation, which is indeed a good and necessary use for EQ, but once again, you're simply shaping the signal to help everything blend... but instead of shaping the level, you're shaping the tone. There are corrective uses for EQ like HPF and LPF, and maybe notching out the odd resonant frequency, and then there are shaping purposes... for instance reducing the the upper mid content in a distorted electric guitar where the vocal is more characterful, consequently emphasizing the lower frequencies where the guitar may have more power. Often this can be preferable to compression because you may not want to alter the transient or sustain of the guitar.

Rides will be more transparent and pro mixes use tons of it, but don't think you should only automate the fader! Most of your "coarse" level automation (different static levels for each song section) should be done during gain staging IMHO, and quite often, tonal and dynamic shaping are only helpful for certain passages, or just as often are required in different amounts from moment to moment. For instance you may want to adjust the ratio of a compressor that you're using to enhance the fullness of a snare drum when the beefy electric guitar isn't obscuring it so much, or you may want to completely turn off the 2000khz to 4000 khz peaking dip on the electric guitar during an instrumental break where there's no lead vocal to worry about masking. And then you may want to simply ride the fader a db or 2 on the odd dropped lyric.

My main point is the automation isn't the only answer and it isn't always the best... it's a different tool for a different purpose. Different horses for different courses, yeah? Riding up every single vocal note when the guitar chugs are covering the sustain tails might not be the best strategy, because then you're might wind up having to automate a de-esser to keep the sibilants under control, and you may also wind up having to automate the guitar transients now the the vocal notes are covering them up... you can spend hours penciling this stuff in when a little light compression and EQ could have shaped the guitar and vocal around each other moresmoothly. Obviously you'll still likely need to ride the faders to avoid EXCESSIVE EQ and compression, which is where Blitzzz has an excellent point relevant to this particular mix, but using these tools in combination, each for their specific purpose with a purpose-driven goal in mind, is when you're really mixing audio.

And let's not forget... a little compression and (sometimes) EQ on the master buss can smoothly blend things such that much less compression, EQ and automation are needed on the individual tracks!

[Blitzzz]

excellent post, pauli. this forum is alive because of people like you =)

[pauli]

Thanks Funny story... I was thumbing through the gearslutz forums this morning before I listened to Obelix's mix, and it was shocking to me how many people stated, under no uncertain terms, that you should NEVER compress a lead vocal, NEVER compress the mix buss, and unless you're working with crappy musician's recorded by an inept recording engineer, EQ is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. Absolutely shocked... fader riding is great and we should all be doing more of it, but even with perfect recordings (whatever that means) that mix would have no character for my taste. Especially once you've get a nice little collection of good compressors and EQs, I can't resist that sound.

Obelix, what sort of processing are you using on this mix?

[takka360]

People should just do what they think as there are no rules in mixing.
Obelix will be wasting his time forever more without monitors or at least
some proper mixing phones. gearslutz people need to get in the real world
as so many on there talk nonsense

[pauli]

Completely agree, no rules. If it sounds good, it is good.

Your gearslutz point is a really good one, too. Obelix, when you are able to go monitor shopping, don't pay too much attention to gearslutz reviews... Most of em spend too much time thinking and not enough time listening, and even more of them are more interested in spending a lot of money than getting a good mix. Go for drivers that are an appropriate size for your room, wood construction, and avoid anything that isn't marketed specifically for studio use... With decent acoustic treatment and extensive listening you can't go too far wrong. KRK, JBL and M Audio are pretty well thought of in the budget range.

You'll generally get more bang for your buck on speakers than phones, assuming you're able to control your acoustics . Mixing in headphones can be pretty frustrating and you have to be careful not to hurt yourself, but if you go that route AKG and audio technica make good budget gear... I can vouch for AKG phones and M Audio speakers personally, but it's a matter of taste most times.

[Obelix]

[quote='pauli' pid='29066' dateline='1424723788']
Thanks Funny story... I was thumbing through the gearslutz forums this morning before I listened to Obelix's mix, and it was shocking to me how many people stated, under no uncertain terms, that you should NEVER compress a lead vocal, NEVER compress the mix buss, and unless you're working with crappy musician's recorded by an inept recording engineer, EQ is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. Absolutely shocked... fader riding is great and we should all be doing more of it, but even with perfect recordings (whatever that means) that mix would have no character for my taste. Especially once you've get a nice little collection of good compressors and EQs, I can't resist that sound.

Why should I never do main vocal compression ? I learned how to mix from 5 minutes to a better mix (videos from Graham Cochrane, Recording Revolution). Graham says that you can get better vocal sound by not just using one compressor, he says that stacking multiple compressors does wonders.

[Blitzzz]

It's a good technique if you know what you are doing The point is: Have you listened to the vocal tracks before you started mixing? Do the vocal tracks of this song REALLY need compression? Did you compress the vocal tracks because Graham (btw. i like him because he seems like a down to earth guy) told you so so or because you felt it is NEEDED? This is something no guide will ever teach you because you have to rely on your ears and on your experience as a mixer. The vocal tracks of Burning Bridges are allready compressed - I know it because I´m the guy who recorded them. More Compression will definitely suck the life out of the vocals - and that's what happend to your mix. It's lifeless, almost flat. Compare your mix with Takka 360s latest mix he posted yesterday and you instantly hear the difference. His mix is raw, has a lot of energy and doesn't sound overprocessed. Btw.: Did you use a professional mixed song as a reference track?? This is something Graham has also mentioned several times on his website. You will instantly hear what's wrong with your mix if you use a Killswitch Engage song from As daylight dies or End of Heartache for reference.