Merrygold: Motherload

[juanjose1967]

Thank you for your comments Olli and Patrick! I've checked on the guitar EQ and lowered the snare a little bit.

I like this song too much to leave it "unperfect"

[pauli]

Sorry for the late reply, man. Speaker issues, troubled home life, too busy at work... everything's been demanding much of my attention lately.

I listened to your more recent mix and haven't read ay of the comments, so forgive me if I repeat anything that's been said already.

This for me is a very comfortable listen, easy on the ears, which is always tough when you've got a a super percussive stringed instrument (banjo) and a really dry reed instrument (accordion) to blend, so on that level you've done excellent work!

Bluegrass is one of my favorite genres... I play guitar, banjo and mandolin and have jammed with several bluegrass bands over the years, and it accounts for a big chunk of my casual listening, so I might be able to provide you with some helpful insights from a listener's perspective. Your mix is very ambient and that sounds very nice, but generally commercial bluegrass mixes will have a drier and more naturalistic sound. I'm not even slightly offended by the wetness because it actually enhances the tone of the mix considerably and fills out the stereo image, but I'd consider shortening the reverb length, and perhaps the mix would benefit from thinking a bit further about the sort of acoustic environment where most people expect to hear this sort of music... small churches/assembly halls and intimate live venues. Of course we're not talking dryness akin to Nirvana's Nevermind and there are exceptions to the usually dry country music sound... if you'd like to hear a really good example of a wet country music sound, Robert Earl Keen's record "Walking Distance" has many excellent examples, particularly "Theme: Road To No Return" / "Carolina." If your intention is a full, indie country sound, then pursue this course with the reverb (it sounds great), but keep the low stuff under control. For something more radio friendly and solidly commercial sound, a convolution reverb using a very short, diffuse impulse response is probably the best bet.

I prefer your low mids here to my phase cancelled mess, but the guitars are suffering from a bit of bloat in that region... probably proximity bass boost is the cause, so a simple low shelving filter will probably spotlight more of the pick/string sound and otherwise clear the mix up. Nothing too bad, but it sounds a bit unnatural.

On the whole though, a great job... even moreso considering that this genre of music is pretty solely and distinctly american, and as such probably a bit out of your comfort zone. Sorry again for the late!

[Olli H]

I like your last version.

Only one thing came to mind. Just a little bit of saturation to snare might move it slightly behind the band. Snare and bluegrass is blasphemy in certain circles. Well on the other hand, maybe for that very reason it should be loud and proudly in front.

[The_Metallurgist]

headphones don't have an even/flat frequency response across the spectrum. furthermore, our hearing is far from linear, as Messrs Fletcher and Munson discovered in their early research. in order to judge the spectral balance of a mix and ensure the bass, midrange and treble regions are suitably derived along with all the instruments performing with it, we need to monitor at 86dBFS (ultimate value depends on the room size, so don't take this at face value!). determining this with a calibrated monitoring system and an acoustically treated room that can accommodate them adequately (installed by a competent individual), is a piece of cake. the problem comes when working a mix 100 percent with headphones. so, anyone who mixes this way will have a compromised mix simply because of all the science that's acting against them at every step of the way. for those who think they can mix bass with headphones? you must be deluded

the issues i'm hearing in this mix, could be attributed to the science above. if i were to highlight the specific issues it wouldn't make much sense, simply because we can only fix what we can hear. my fear with people who think they can mix this way, is that sooner or later they will reach a point where their mixing skills will reach a plateau (as will occur with any other compromised audio monitoring arrangement).

it doesn't matter how much money you pay for your cans, they are still crippled by science. furthermore, and this bit is also rarely understood in the music community but is clearly well understood in the audiophile brigade...i speak with experience, is the fact that many of the more quality headphones require a decent amp to make them work properly which often means going to a dedicated headphone amp. generally it's the high-Z units (but what do i mean by high?). many integrated headphone amps are unable to deliver enough power to do some headphones justice. so, for those of you who think you can plug your HD600's into any old port, you'd be well advised to check the spec sheet of your own gear and make sure it's up to delivering the goods to your cans.

before i break off here, i will mention one important thing: SPL! you chaps have NO IDEA how much SPL your headphones are operating at, especially after a long mixing session and your ears are fatigued and the levels have steadily increased. it's easy to exceed the threshold and especially duration (i.e. total exposure to loudness throughout the day) where hearing impairment begins. there is a major crisis going on globally, where generations are suffering hearing impairment because of modern changes to people's listening habits; a simple stock-take of all those headphones and ear buds at your local electric gadget store should give some clues as to the scale of things today. it's worrying governments because premature deafness is reaching epidemic proportions.

you pays your money, you takes your choice

take care!
Dave

[Olli H]

headphones don't have an even/flat frequency response across the spectrum. furthermore, our hearing is far from linear, as Messrs Fletcher and Munson discovered in their early research. in order to judge the spectral balance of a mix and ensure the bass, midrange and treble regions are suitably derived along with all the instruments performing with it, we need to monitor at 86dBFS (ultimate value depends on the room size, so don't take this at face value!). determining this with a calibrated monitoring system and an acoustically treated room that can accommodate them adequately (installed by a competent individual), is a piece of cake.

Good headphones have better frequency response than good expensive monitors in cheap room.

the problem comes when working a mix 100 percent with headphones. so, anyone who mixes this way will have a compromised mix simply because of all the science that's acting against them at every step of the way. for those who think they can mix bass with headphones? you must be deluded

I’m surely one of those deluded persons and I will be that also in future. So I’will continue to check the bass issues with HD 600 headphones.

As I have severe problems in understanding scientific argumentation, I must ask that is your message:
If one doesn’t have perfect room, find a new hobby
If one doesn’t have perfect gear, find a new hobby
????

In my ignorance I’m glad to think that there’s no scientifically perfect room, there’s only bad rooms, very bad rooms, extremely bad rooms and bed rooms. And none of them is hindrance to making enjoyable music.

[The_Metallurgist]

As Bob Katz and plenty of other top professionals prefer HD600 headphones, I think you’re in good company.

i think you really need to define what you mean by "prefer". what tasks do these "top professionals" prefer to use them on? it isn't because they prefer HD600's over Koss Tony Bennetts because they are mixing 100 percent, or because they are better at checking bass! headphones can only offer a second best alternative to an untreated room with an inappropriate monitor choice and set up. headphone's however, are great for drilling into certain detail, and in that respect i wouldn't argue - i use both DT880's and HD650's for such purposes, through a Lake People 109 amp. i'll even use them on the late shift when mixing....but for the sake of clarity, EQ adjustments will be rough, with final decisions made over the 2.1 system during the light of day!

Juan's mixes have always suffered from low-end issues and especially low-mid congestion - his latest mix is no exception. the reason he's unable to fix this is because he mixes 100 percent with headphones. now, if he wants to make any improvements in his mixing, he needs to change his modus operandi. unless some changes are made in the right direction, he will still be producing mediocre mixes in 2 years time containing the same issues. the reason we are all here in the forum is because we want to improve....and mixing 100 percent, or checking bass on the cans, will only take a mix so far...unless one's goal is maintaining mediocrity.

to simply say that Bob Katz uses HD600's without qualifying the circumstances of their use, and to compare this against Juan's 100 percent mixing situation is, in my opinion, like comparing chalk with cheese. you are NOT comparing like for like and i think it's these kind of highly generalised statements that cause myths to perpetuate.

there are many people in the forum who can't tell the difference between a 128kbps audio file and a 320kbps. for such people, it won't make any difference if they mix in a bedroom or a broom cupboard over some Logitech PC speakers or on expensive headphones. all too often in the forum, i hear mixes that make my ears bleed, and low-end that is highly fatiguing. is this your definition of "enjoyable music", perhaps? to me, unless the recording is good, the mix is right and the master is appropriate, there is little, if anything, to enjoy.

we all have different aspirations and goals. using headphones to judge bass isn't recommended for those who have aspirations beyond mediocrity; ask Bob Katz if you are in any doubt.

below is a useful comparison of FR between 3 pairs of cans. put one of your most enjoyable mixes into the mastering process and simply adjust the EQ by the amounts the frequency response varies in these graphs to hear at first hand of the problems headphones cause.....then bypass the EQ every 20 seconds. yes, it depends what you are monitoring with, but whatever it is, you should still hear the issues.....

[Olli H]

I never claimed that headphones are best for everything.
I never claimed that headphones are best for anything.
But still they are good for something.

This happens to be mainly a student and a hobbyist forum, and to most of mediocre hobbyists like me good headphones are invaluable tools, just because our facilities are not in the professional level, and never will be. In this non-professional contex an advice to spend huge amounts of money to room and gear sounds odd to me. But if our budget is 300 €, then good headphones are a very good investment.

Although I do have a decent room for mediocre hobbyist, for practical reasons quite many of my mixes will be also in the future 100% headphone mixes. And yes, my mixes will always be mediocre. Feel free to laugh at me also in future, I can handle it, because I know that I’m not a professional, and I will never be, and I don’t even wish to be.

[WaltsAudio]

Thank you for your comments Olli and Patrick! I've checked on the guitar EQ and lowered the snare a little bit.

I like this song too much to leave it "unperfect"

Hi juanjose,

The guitar solo is still very low. I listened to your mix on studio monitors and then a headset and it quite favors a headset. That's where studio monitors are so valuable. Mixing on a decent set of monitors can help your mix translate well to anything from a cheap set of earbuds to a high-end home stereo. Of course, studio monitors need to be set up in the room such that they reproduce accurately. That's worth learning about and spending some time getting set up correctly. Your mixes will thank you...

If you go through the end and solo each track in that area, you'll find at least one that has a very abrupt drop off with a pop. If you fade that one out before the rest, you can get a much smoother ending.

Feel free to check out my mix for reference as the result of things I've mentioned above and comments would be welcomed.
Walt