Howlin

[jeremias666]

Pretty good mix.

[jerze]

I think each mix you did got better.The things in the 3rd mix that might need some attention,the kic might need to come down a little or maybe a eq adj on the sub freq 45 to 50 range,an the guitar part in the verse which others had mentioned ( placement, and some compression to tight the dynamics up some).

Wow great posts metallurgist had alot of great points on having vision for a mix, i too will be thinking alot more about this in my next mixes.I think the things he talked about will help if you did remix this or any you do in the future.Hell, copy/ paste those posts i did.
nice job

[pauli]

Thanks for listening and feedback. I must say, while I learned my fundamentals mainly on my own, the guidance of several members of the discussion zone has really pulled the pieces together, and the metallurgist is one of them.

I also suggest you check out takka, olli h, voelund and juanjose... They're all really good about making observations that make you wonder why you didn't think of it first.

I like to give good feedback, too, but I've been having a hard time squeezing in enough time for really detailed listening (I have a small project going on alongside my work here) and nothing is worse than halfassed feedback. As soon as I get a chance, I owe you, Jeremiahs, and moonwrist comments. Don't let me forget

[thedon]

Hi Pauli

I haven't downloaded the multitracks yet ,sounds like a great job !
listening to my Daughters modern cd's today to get an idea of the sound of this Genre for a reference which to me sound bright and over limited for my taste .Listening to your mix ,the snare (maybe the entire mix )sounds like it could have a touch more top end air and maybe a touch more de-essing on the vocals.

[The_Metallurgist]

The piano I felt sounded very nice in solo or with a light arrangement built around it... I had originally intended to build everything around the piano. I think about spacial realism sometimes when mixing heavily electronic tracks, and at least to my brain it doesn't make sense to be too concerned about realism when the entire song is built around artificial instruments... but perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe allowing the piano more opportunities to sound realistic could bring an electronic arrangement down to earth, if that were the desire.

which outcome would give the most goose bumps and squeeze more emotion from the source?

Working with the recorded musician makes these judgement calls easier because you can just start deleting stuff until they throw a fit

you're lucky if they throw a fit. normally they just get up and walk out, never to be seen again But if you feel the urge, do it and see where your instincts takes a mix. nobody wins points for re-inventing the wheel.....

Side note... a few months ago a kid just out of highschool asked me for some help mixing a bunch of his songs, so I've been working with him here and there... I think I've learned some of my most important lessons thusfar with this recent "real world" experience. Had he not come to me for help, someone may have sued him for blowing out expensive speaker systems... he'd never heard of a high pass filter

we were all born naked It's great that you were able to help and assist....from acorns can grow mighty oaks and your efforts might help him on his way.

while you mention high passing, note your v3 seemingly has some excess low-end energy from the kick which you might want to analyse for reference and calibration purposes - forgot to mention it earlier.

keep up the great work....of moving onwards and upwards.

[pauli]

which outcome would give the most goose bumps and squeeze more emotion from the source?

"I guess that depends on the source," would be the glib response.

Much as you've described, my initial plan was to build the entire mix around the piano... but for some reason I couldn't get the tracks to behave the way I expected them to. After a furious, red-faced spanking I took another approach.

However, if I'd managed to develop a more realistic spacial image for the piano, it would have certainly "grounded" things in a way that would have given me a better anchor for the other non-synthesized instruments, even with the instrument somewhat de-prioritized. Finding room for proper wetness in this mix was really tough, and that lends further credence to the necessity of arrangement tweaks.

My plan B was to try and build the emotion around the vocal instead... note the distorted delays and layers of reverb built around each block of multi-tracked vocals. You were accurate though in noting that the differences in reverb techniques from section to section were too stark and it was ruining the suspension of disbelief.

Perhaps in this case the vocal isn't the best anchor for the track, though. The piano is really the one tonally/spatially consistent raw track, and the vocals vary a good bit. I'll probably revisit this one in a few months to see what happens with new skills and a fresh mindset

while you mention high passing, note your v3 seemingly has some excess low-end energy from the kick which you might want to analyse for reference and calibration purposes - forgot to mention it earlier.

keep up the great work....of moving onwards and upwards.

That's a bit odd... I'm going off memory here but I seem to recall backing off on the sub-kick quite a bit on V2 and V3. That likely means something I did during mastering hyped the low stuff and there was a multiband compressor at work... good point, I'm going to look into that.

Thanks always (to everyone) for your feedback, suggestions, and criticisms. I'd march into battle with you fine people any day.

[HbGuitar]

Nice job here....lots of detail in the backing track and good control of the vox in general

the only thing that struck me was that the lead chorus vox that answers the howls seemed very direct and quite narrow...probably the opposite to what one would expect in a chorus where you usually think big and wide, especially in a pop-song....but that's a personal preference i guess.

[pauli]

I'd say that's a very good point, HB. I succumbed to the temptation to spread the howls a great bit wider than much of the track, given all the material to work with, and didn't EQ properly to set them back in the mix, which makes more sense if it's going to be wider than the lead vox. Stereo spread is an issue for me that I've neglected for too long, so I'll have to do a little homework, eh?

Thanks for the listen.

[HbGuitar]

I'd say that's a very good point, HB. I succumbed to the temptation to spread the howls a great bit wider than much of the track, given all the material to work with, and didn't EQ properly to set them back in the mix, which makes more sense if it's going to be wider than the lead vox. Stereo spread is an issue for me that I've neglected for too long, so I'll have to do a little homework, eh?

Thanks for the listen.

Honestly, i didn't notice the howls being out of place...only the response. But even then, my observations are colored by my own intentions for this mix (something i try not to do, or at least minimize when i listen to others' mixes but it is hard to avoid).....hence my noticing the "narrow" vocals...is probably because it is the opposite of what i was trying to achieve.

Re homework....may it never end...!

cheers

[iShouldBsleeping]

Well I know it was a long time ago, but I figured I'd give it a review anyway.

Snare seems a little weak, instrumentation is balanced nicely. Clap seems a little out front.. Chorus seems to lack midrange energy.. like the guitar is buried.. I feel like the lead vocals aren't as dynamic as they could be, and not really my taste of reverb. I would have like to hear more work done on all the backing tracks.. FX wise. Kind of dry for me.

I'm glad you enjoyed working on this, I did too. If you get a chance check out my version, thanks: http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/showt...p?tid=8609