RockMe-FacingTheTruth

[SonicTramp]

Lots of energy, this song. Holding my breath thinking 5 more seconds I'd be 6 feet under. I enjoy mixing song like this, always on the go, pushing forward. Great job playing!

[Shul]

way too much compression and limiter on your master bus. It's very squashed. Even the vocals are pumping in there.

[SonicTramp]

@Shul. Thanks, man. I checked. I had 3 comps on the master bus. 1st is for leveling the whole mix (3dBs GR), being first. 2nd is for the mid (.5dB GR), trying to get the snare/kick/bass snappy, and 3rd for loudness (.5dB GR) (this is the time I floor the pedal, turning up the output level, as far as I can) . Each comp slowest attack/fastest release, ratio stuck at 4:1 (BF76). I don't think it's over compressing (but I have been known to be dead wrong before; that's how I learn). Now, if you still think that is too much, then I will yield bc I respect you as a mixer. I have more to learn from you guys. But if you think the amount is tolerable, then what else would trigger your perception? About the pumping vocal, maybe it's a combination of bad editing and controlling. I remember originally it was not pretty to look at as far as level going in and out slightly in some parts. I'll work on it more. I like this song.

[mikej]

Hi,

I would say 3 comps on the master bus is a bit much. I've never used pro-tools - I think the BF76 is an 1176 style compressor? Which is probably a little too quick and aggressive to put over the whole mix for a start.

If you don't have an SSL bus style compressor and are using stock plugins - as a starting point I'd maybe try the standard (dyn3?) comp instead. Set ratio 4:1, attack 30ms. release 100ms. Also try around 3-6db for the knee, so the onset of compression is more gentle, and try for no more than 2 db gain reduction at the loudest part of the song. Follow that with a good limiter for the loudness.

Cheers!

[SonicTramp]

Hi,

I would say 3 comps on the master bus is a bit much.  I've never used pro-tools - I think the BF76 is an 1176 style compressor? Which is probably a little too quick and aggressive to put over the whole mix for a start. 

If you don't have an SSL bus style compressor and are using stock plugins - as a starting point I'd maybe try the standard (dyn3?) comp instead. Set ratio 4:1, attack 30ms. release 100ms.  Also try around 3-6db for the knee, so the onset of compression is more gentle, and try for no more than 2 db gain reduction at the loudest part of the song.  Follow that with a good limiter for the loudness.

Cheers!

*Thanks for the tip, mikej. Yeah, the BF76 is pretty much an 1176 comp. I do use the stock (dyn3) but, usually, I use the bf76 for rock genre, bc of its aggressiveness.

[SonicTramp]

Came back and did a redo. Here's my set up: I have a mixbus and a master bus. The mixbus is where I send everything to so I can process the whole mix (comp/eq/MS/etc) and the master bus is only for loudness with a limiter. What I notice from the master bus is sometimes (very briefly) it hits about 4 1/2 to 6 dBs GR (Maxim limiter), all the while the rest of the song stays roughly 0 GR. I checked all the instruments for spikes as carefully as I could, especially the drums/snare rolls but found nothing. I'd appreciate someone's insight on that. note: Sometimes I loop the problem part to find what causes it and found that the limiter is NOT hitting 4-5dBs, but if I play the whole song then it would come back. Very confusing.

[mikej]

Have you checked if you hear anything at those points if the mixbus is muted? Do you have a routing error? A track or effect, such as a reverb, that's routed to your master bus instead of the mix bus?

Cheers!

[Roy]

Came back and did a redo. Here's my set up: I have a mixbus and a master bus. The mixbus is where I send everything to so I can process the whole mix (comp/eq/MS/etc) and the master bus is only for loudness with a limiter. What I notice from the master bus is sometimes (very briefly) it hits about 4 1/2 to 6 dBs GR (Maxim limiter), all the while the rest of the song stays roughly 0 GR. I checked all the instruments for spikes as carefully as I could, especially the drums/snare rolls but found nothing. I'd appreciate someone's insight on that. note: Sometimes I loop the problem part to find what causes it and found that the limiter is NOT hitting 4-5dBs, but if I play the whole song then it would come back. Very confusing.

I only had a moment to listen about half to the revision. So some quick thoughts.
I kinda like the tone of the drums. They have a sound. Though the kick might be a hair loud.
Some of the guitar parts are buried.

Overall I think the mix could breath some more. It does feel compressed. This is a song that needs dynamics and to open up more in the chorus.

Do you mix with everything on your mix bus from the start? I find it helps to mix into the mix bus processing from the start as opposed to adding it later. This also feels like a candidate for parallel compression (or Andrew Scheps "rear" buss compression*).

As for spikes, for me it's almost always a snare (but I usually have the snare too loud) or the attack of a really aggressive compressor like an 1176 in all buttons mode with a "slow" attack. Bass guitars can do this sometimes too. Especially if they play aggressively and the strings hit the pickups or they slap. Or there could be some subsonic sound that you're not hearing that spikes like a plosive. Or the attack on the comp on the mix bus needs to be tweaked. Or the program is just being weird and you need to quit it and re-open it.

[fake edit:] If you look at the snare track for this song you can see the points at which they really dig into the snare drum. Like going into the chorus. I'm not saying that's the culprit but pointing out the visual ways you can see the really dynamic parts of audio. Though I'd look there first.

Consider bouncing the mix and then do the limiting to the stereo mix. If nothing else you might just see where those spikes are and make it easier to go back and deal with in the mix. That happens to me a lot where I open a mix to "master" it and see the one snare that peaks over everything else.

Anyhoo. Sorry to ramble. Those are my pre-coffee thoughts.

*https://youtu.be/2CCzT7WlKAA?si=JSqllKpi9MrmQjiy

[SonicTramp]

Have you checked if you hear anything at those points if the mixbus is muted? Do you have a routing error? A track or effect, such as a reverb, that's routed to your master bus instead of the mix bus?

Cheers!

If anything, I sometimes forget to route new aux to "mix" when I decide to add more stuffs, but whatever it is, when it's not routed to "mix" and stay on default output, I'd notice, mostly level wise. When I change output to bus "mix" then it would sound ok. (The "mix" is where everything goes to after that everything would go to the master bus where I only have a limiter on). Other than that I am quite mindful of where things go. I have learned that lesson well .

I took your mix as a ref. I notice it's ridiculously loud, which I love (part of what I am going for in a mix). I tried a couple ways to get mine as loud but unable to. Not until I blasted the sides, a whopping 4.5dBs (using MSED voxengo) . It did make my mix a lot louder, but obscured a little bit of the vocal. Am I heading in the wrong direction?

[SonicTramp]

Came back and did a redo. Here's my set up: I have a mixbus and a master bus. The mixbus is where I send everything to so I can process the whole mix (comp/eq/MS/etc) and the master bus is only for loudness with a limiter. What I notice from the master bus is sometimes (very briefly) it hits about 4 1/2 to 6 dBs GR (Maxim limiter), all the while the rest of the song stays roughly 0 GR. I checked all the instruments for spikes as carefully as I could, especially the drums/snare rolls but found nothing. I'd appreciate someone's insight on that. note: Sometimes I loop the problem part to find what causes it and found that the limiter is NOT hitting 4-5dBs, but if I play the whole song then it would come back. Very confusing.

I only had a moment to listen about half to the revision. So some quick thoughts.
I kinda like the tone of the drums. They have a sound. Though the kick might be a hair loud.
Some of the guitar parts are buried.

Overall I think the mix could breath some more. It does feel compressed. This is a song that needs dynamics and to open up more in the chorus.

Do you mix with everything on your mix bus from the start? I find it helps to mix into the mix bus processing from the start as opposed to adding it later. This also feels like a candidate for parallel compression (or Andrew Scheps "rear" buss compression*).

**I usually just push things up until they sound good and balance, level-wise. After that I would LP and HP until they sound better (frequency-wise). After that I'd put a compressor on the "mixbus" and start my mixing process from there. I'd readjust levels, cut/boost, and compress/gate at track level

As for spikes, for me it's almost always a snare (but I usually have the snare too loud) or the attack of a really aggressive compressor like an 1176 in all buttons mode with a "slow" attack. Bass guitars can do this sometimes too. Especially if they play aggressively and the strings hit the pickups or they slap. Or there could be some subsonic sound that you're not hearing that spikes like a plosive. Or the attack on the comp on the mix bus needs to be tweaked. Or the program is just being weird and you need to quit it and re-open it.

[fake edit:] If you look at the snare track for this song you can see the points at which they really dig into the snare drum. Like going into the chorus. I'm not saying that's the culprit but pointing out the visual ways you can see the really dynamic parts of audio. Though I'd look there first.

I did look at it but hesitate to go in and level them down bc I worry that I'd mess the dynamics of the performance up. However, this time (I'm desperate, man), I went in and level them down trying to match the levels so that they are more consisting. It did help but not a whole lot. The peaks still hit 4dBs in some parts. And so I lost some loudness bc of it.

Consider bouncing the mix and then do the limiting to the stereo mix. If nothing else you might just see where those spikes are and make it easier to go back and deal with in the mix. That happens to me a lot where I open a mix to "master" it and see the one snare that peaks over everything else.

Anyhoo. Sorry to ramble. Those are my pre-coffee thoughts.

*https://youtu.be/2CCzT7WlKAA?si=JSqllKpi9MrmQjiy (checking out this tube, thanks)

Thanks for taking the time. And yeah, I'll try the rear bus and see.