FytaKyte - Too Much by VV -- no strings

[vovolan]

some notes I made for myself as I was working on the mix, but I'm sharing them with you

overall very good recording and performance
main voc track already processed with a limiter on
going for modern warm tone
doing drummer perspective
subtle resampling on kick/sn to get more punch and consistency, still a bit concerned about the kick tho
dealing with range extremes so like <50hz and >10k still a struggle for me -- applies to kick and hat in this case
snare up phase issues with room(?)
at first I thought the kick was somehow distorted but it turned out it was the room and overheads tracks somehow collapsing together causing that weird effect in certain moments; without any timing adjustments the processing itself somehow magically fixed the issue(?)
removed fx, celo and violin -- instead went for 1/4 dotted delay in those parts
removed whispers
not using bass amp track
zero compression on bass
almost zero compression on guitar amps

all comments are welcome

cheers

[Ricks2006]

I like the processing on the acoustics. In a personal preference, i would widen the track more. It sounds a bit mono. But it does not sound harsh or bad. I too removed some of the string sections lol

[brady85]

I like the mix, but the main vocal gets a little buried in some sections. There is a lot happening in the second verse. For me, it sounds a little too busy
Removing the strings is a good idea, I might do that in my mix too.

a good mix, better than mine haha

[SonicTramp]

I think the vocal can be a bit shinnier. It sounded like it can be. I especially like the snare, but I suspect it is a sample (is it?). It has the top end I don't hear from the original. Not that it diminishes your mix in anyway. I still like it. I heard some of the kick beater but not a lot of body and hard to hear in busier parts. I heard mostly the snare and guitars in those parts. I liked the rhodes too but there were no violins to compete with. They eat up the same place with them and the snare too. Cutting them out helps make working on the snare and the rest easier. I don't think it's a wise move, but to each his own, if easier is what you're looking for.

I don't think you should cut out the violins just to make your mix cleaner and easier. Correct me if I am wrong but in real life setting, our job is mixing it, not altering it in anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the band complains. Why take such chances, right? Besides, the busier the song the more skill it requires.But that's just my opinions.

[vovolan]

Thanks @Ricks @brady @SonicTramp for your comments. Points noted.

but I suspect it is a sample (is it?)

the sample is there but it's only mixed in like 15%, so what you're hearing is the real one. Of course it does somehow contribute to the final sound

I don't think you should cut out the violins just to make your mix cleaner and easier. Correct me if I am wrong but in real life setting, our job is mixing it, not altering it in anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the band complains. Why take such chances, right? Besides, the busier the song the more skill it requires.But that's just my opinions.

um.. I don't think there's a single right answer/approach to that one. Everyone has their own ways.

It's kind of 'natural', if you know what I mean, to think that removing some guitar or bass amp tracks is OK, but getting rid of a whole instrument is somehow wrong. The way I see this is I do whatever I think is best for the song. If I was directly working with the band I'd explain in detail why I don't like those strings, possibly came up with alternatives like the delay I used, or some other sort of compromise. But the final word belongs to them, so if they said they still wanted them I'd keep them.

I actually had a situation like this in the past not as a mixer, but as a 'client'. In a song I was recording with my band we had like 4 guitar tracks playing different melodies at once and it was just too messy; so the mixing engineer suggested we keep one, get rid of the other 3. We went with it, but were confused, and I wasn't sure if it was a good decision until I got into mixing myself, now I get it

[Roy]

I once made the decision as a mixer to take the drums out of an entire song. The client didn't even notice at first until I told them. The song was better for it.

[SonicTramp]

It's kind of 'natural', if you know what I mean, to think that removing some guitar or bass amp tracks is OK, but getting rid of a whole instrument is somehow wrong.

*What evidence do you have about removing some guitars or bass amp tracks is OK? The bass is still there, just in a diff form of recording maybe not DI but amp or not amp but DI, same with the guitars. What you did with the violins was removing it completely. The violins are not there. It's not the same. And that is why it's not OK.

The way I see this is I do whatever I think is best for the song. If I was directly working with the band I'd explain in detail why I don't like those strings, possibly came up with alternatives like the delay I used, or some other sort of compromise. But the final word belongs to them, so if they said they still wanted them I'd keep them.

**That's not true. Mixers don't get to decide what is good for the song, not in the way you do it. What is best for the song could be decided by anyone else, most likely the producer or the band or both but not a mixer. Mixers mix, nothing else.

I actually had a situation like this in the past not as a mixer, but as a 'client'. In a song I was recording with my band we had like 4 guitar tracks playing different melodies at once and it was just too messy; so the mixing engineer suggested we keep one, get rid of the other 3. We went with it, but were confused, and I wasn't sure if it was a good decision until I got into mixing myself, now I get it.

***I don't say that doesn't happen, but only when it's "messy", a legitimate reason and at least 1 guitar is still there. You don't have that with the violins in this song. It's still not the same.

Think about it, before the song comes to you to mix there was a long process of arrangement deciding what instruments to use, at what octave to play, range of harmony, etc. Then comes the costs of renting stuffs, buying stuffs, and pay for the studio time. You recorded, so you should know. And then it gets to you, a mixer.

Let's just say that you would call the band up and tell them you wanted to cut the violins out completely. There is no need for it bc you feel the song would be better without than with. Now the whole gang will have to face with a decision whether to accept or reject your suggestion. So all that planning and costs to record the violin are gone with the wind? if accept, yes. And are there anything wrong with the violins? The answer is no. And does the mixer know the song more than the band? The answer is still no. So why would you bring such an uncalled-for problem to the table? So what next? You are gonna suggest to use an 808 instead? You see where I am heading to, right? It'll be endlessly back and forth bet you and the band. If I were the band, I'd think why can't he just be a mixer and mix the song instead of soliciting a position in decision making process of the band? We need solutions, not problem. What you did was creating a problem. And that is the reason I suggest for you not to do it. And what happens to the guy that tries to outshine his master, you, a mixer, and he, a producer? Bc what you're doing, in essence, is telling them "I know more than all of you" to the band and the producer. Ask Machiavelli, he'll tell you.

[vovolan]

Mixers don't get to decide what is good for the song, not in the way you do it. What is best for the song could be decided by anyone else, most likely the producer or the band or both but not a mixer. Mixers mix, nothing else.

I mean it's you who labeled me as a mixer.
So I guess I am a producer, is it ok then or what? 

[Roy]

In general, I tend to mix everything given on this site because I feel like that's part of the process, for me. Working through the frustration of too many parts. Sometimes things don't really work, though, for whatever reason and part of the process might be figuring out what should be left out. Sometimes you check the reference and there are parts missing or omitted that are in the multitrack folder. Recording can sometimes be a messy endeavor. Bad parts and early decisions can linger on. Sometimes the produce knows this girl ..."who would just be perfect for to sing on this part".

I wouldn't leave a 'bad' part in just because time and money was spent on recording it. That's not the mixer's problem.

In the end it really depends on the situation. Mixing your stuff? A band you've recorded? Are you hired to mix a song? There are totally mixers who get hired and leave out parts and make edits remove sections and make artistic choices they feel are best. If I was hired as a mixer, I'd consider the song to be the important part and in some ways I would be telling the band "I know more than all of you" because I was hired to be that person. I've known producers who complained when I left parts in because they (were lazy) and expected me to figure it out. Especially in this day and age of being sent files and mixing on your own. It was easier when one can just turn around to the band on the couch and say what do you think? If a band wants the strings in then fine but I'm not going to waste the time to contact them and wait for them to figure it out and get back to me while I'm in the middle of working on it. I'd make a decision and let them hear the actual result of that decision. If they don't like it it's easy enough to recall a mix and work them in.

Personally, I like the strings being in. I don't like the bass amp so I left that out. That's relatively minor but still to the point. Sometimes a guitar DI is provided or an untuned version of the vocals are provided. Are you supposed to use them just because they're there? No. Could you? I suppose and I have at times.

People have all made their own choices as to what happens at the top of the song. Some left everything in that was presented in the multitrack folder. Volvolan has the one guitar part start the song off. I went with what the band's own reference mix did so the first bit of guitar fx provided wasn't used. Who to listen to? It's never really black and white.

[SonicTramp]

Mixers don't get to decide what is good for the song, not in the way you do it. What is best for the song could be decided by anyone else, most likely the producer or the band or both but not a mixer. Mixers mix, nothing else.

I mean it's you who labeled me as a mixer.
So I guess I am a producer, is it ok then or what? 


***Still no if you didn't produce the song. Just bc you are a producer doesn't mean you can chop stuffs off from songs produced by someone else. What kind of reasoning is it? Just bc one can sing doesn't mean one can just change the lyrics of, say, "Hotel California" right? The rule still applies: no changing w/o permission and no soliciting for permission for reason explained earlier. Not knowing your place will most likely bring you to a sad place, the unemployment line. When you mix, you mix. Concentrate on that. It's not your song. Get with it.

Just a reminder, when you are in here mixing, we, meaning me, will assume that you are a mixer. It's just the rule, man, unspoken but understood, the same with public etiquette. You can't assume we know that you are a producer/mixer. You have to make that announcement, on your own.