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(18-04-2024, 05:43 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: @Shul. About the toms. It's not really in the middle; they are off to the side but not much. The way I imagine the toms in a drum set, they are not really that wide, right? Well, maybe the floor tom on the far right (drummer's perspective), but if they are toms, I pretty much pan them slightly, unless the track says 'floor tom,' in that case I'd pan them to the right. I went with what the Overhead tracks gave me. If you listen to the overheads it's got the floor tome on the left and the other tom is slightly to the right. I tried to mimic that so that I wouldn't have too many phase problems on them. When you go opposite side than the overheads sometimes out of phase is horrible. Not always though.
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(19-04-2024, 02:57 AM)Shul Wrote: (18-04-2024, 05:43 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: @Shul. About the toms. It's not really in the middle; they are off to the side but not much. The way I imagine the toms in a drum set, they are not really that wide, right? Well, maybe the floor tom on the far right (drummer's perspective), but if they are toms, I pretty much pan them slightly, unless the track says 'floor tom,' in that case I'd pan them to the right. I went with what the Overhead tracks gave me. If you listen to the overheads it's got the floor tome on the left and the other tom is slightly to the right. I tried to mimic that so that I wouldn't have too many phase problems on them. When you go opposite side than the overheads sometimes out of phase is horrible. Not always though. * Sure, man. Thanks for the tips. Yeah, man, no one needs phase problems. I will keep an eye out for it. I still make a ton of mistakes and am grateful you guys are trying to help.
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I'll still say I like the centered (slightly panned or not) toms on this. I toyed with doing that myself. Doing so can kind of 'ground' the part and help the groove. When it's a busy pattern like this one wider panned toms can be a little distracting. Like in my mix now that I listen to it, lol. On a song with a few tom fills it can be cool to go wide.
While we should always double check the phase I don't think it'd matter that much in the end where the toms are panned because you're not really changing the distance between the mics at this point. They're as in phase as they're going to get regardless of panning. Sure you can flip the polarity and that might help or add some delay but panning won't change the phase relationship. Panning is just changing level not time. Unless I'm mistaken then feel free to correct me. That said, matching the placement of the toms in the stereo image to the overheads is a good practice. Though OHs are not infallible and aren't always placed for a stereo image of the drums.
Anyhoo. Sorry to rant. I''m go get my coffee now.
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(19-04-2024, 01:37 PM)Roy Wrote: I'll still say I like the centered (slightly panned or not) toms on this. I toyed with doing that myself. Doing so can kind of 'ground' the part and help the groove. When it's a busy pattern like this one wider panned toms can be a little distracting. Like in my mix now that I listen to it, lol. On a song with a few tom fills it can be cool to go wide.
While we should always double check the phase I don't think it'd matter that much in the end where the toms are panned because you're not really changing the distance between the mics at this point. They're as in phase as they're going to get regardless of panning. Sure you can flip the polarity and that might help or add some delay but panning won't change the phase relationship. Panning is just changing level not time. Unless I'm mistaken then feel free to correct me. That said, matching the placement of the toms in the stereo image to the overheads is a good practice. Though OHs are not infallible and aren't always placed for a stereo image of the drums.
Anyhoo. Sorry to rant. I''m go get my coffee now.
* I have to side with you on this. And second, with panning is NOT time related, phase is. I was going wide, as Shul suggested, but now after your explanation, Im gonna jump ship and pan them closer to the center. It makes sense, with the constant pounding, it's better for the toms to be anchored closer to the middle.
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I went back and worked on those pointed by you guys, mostly Roy's. I backed off the bass but it sounded weak, so I had to push it back up. To my ears now, w/headphone, the mix sounds fuller with it turned up. Man, I hope I didn't work it too hard. If I don't have the bottom end I have nothing. I clipgained the both snares down to give way to the toms, it sounds much cleaners. Worked on the solo that competed with the vocal. Worked on the owl, my favorite. etc...
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I'm only about 40 seconds in but it sounds way too compressed. Especially when the kick hits. I'd say make sure that's what you want it to be doing/sound like before I could give it further evaluation.
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My mistake Roy you are 100% correct I guess I was referring to a p"hasey" sound when you have the room of thr overhead on the left and the actual main Tom on the right. That small delay from the left sounds funnyl. I take what I said about the phase problem back my mistake sorry.
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(19-04-2024, 08:41 PM)Shul Wrote: My mistake Roy you are 100% correct I guess I was referring to a p"hasey" sound when you have the room of thr overhead on the left and the actual main Tom on the right. That small delay from the left sounds funnyl. I take what I said about the phase problem back my mistake sorry. It's cool. To be honest I was working on a whole reply in my head before I was like"oh wait, the panning wont matter". They're still in the same time.
Sure, panning the toms opposite of where they are to the OHs could probably sound weird, though probably go unnoticed to be honest. I'm sure I've panned toms assuming they went one way when the OHs go another. And it's mostly on the recording engineer who should print the toms as they would be in the overheads. But yeah, always check the overheads and see what the perspective is.
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(19-04-2024, 04:32 PM)Roy Wrote: I'm only about 40 seconds in but it sounds way too compressed. Especially when the kick hits. I'd say make sure that's what you want it to be doing/sound like before I could give it further evaluation. *very disappointed in myself not catching it before posting, bro. Sigh. The mistakes I made. But I think I found the reason why. I think the toms are just too dynamics and that I should try to control it at the track level instead. Yup, I went and worked on the mix bus instead. (Why can't I just learn without the pain of pay for the mistakes? But why ask why, right?) So this is an attempt to fixed what I thought was causing it. I also remember Shul said something about my snare being dull. I tried to brighten it up but to no avail. I liked the one I had before but just couldn't duplicate. I also lost some loudness, but too scared to push it up more, and thought it is loud enough  so I leave it be.
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I would suggest you stay away from the master bus for now and just break down compression on individual tracks. Personally I make a mix bus for drums,(snare,toms,kick,overheads) bass(sometimes 3 tracks), guitars(2 tracks in stereo), and use compression those. Rule of thumb when using compressors on a mix bus or master bus... Don't compress too much. Every track group in there gets affected to a degree when compressing too much.
I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I recorded a video of me mixing a rough mix years ago. That's just my way of mixing but on min 7 I work on drums. Maybe you can get something useful out of it.
https://youtu.be/1hRrc7uzbEU?si=RLXrCRsSwbI-3xpo
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