Discussion Zone

I am self-taught both in video/film editing and audio engineering, having been experimenting with audio and video since my teen years back in the 1980s.

My guiding principle in mixing I call the "principle of least treatment."

Having heard the crystal clean sound of CDs from the earliest days of consumer digital sound in the 80s, comparing it to the overprocessed, overcompressed mess many commercial mixes are today, I have come to believe that current mixing techniques rely too heavily on processing, particularly in the use/abuse of compression in mastering.

In general, I go as gently as possible on all processing, using only the minimum EQ, automation and compression necessary to get everything to blend smoothly, and under no circumstances do I EVER apply processing or compression of ANY kind at the mastering stage; my goal is to preserve 100% of the dynamics of the original recording.

I joined this forum in order to get all of YOUR thoughts on what I've done with these multitracks. Criticism is welcome so long as its polite and constructive.

I already did Johnny Lokke's "Whisper to a Scream," which is also posted in that thread. Personally, I like this one better; not only are the tracks of higher quality (Mr. Lokke himself has said that the tracks for "Whisper" were only demo quality) but this song has a more dynamic feel to it, and much more evocative of that 80's hard rock style I just love.

One problem, though, that I'd like some opinions on. When Johnny hits the higher register in his vocals towards the end his voice shifts to the left. This is not something I did; it's something I noticed after the mixdown was complete. I double checked and there was no problem with the panning automation (I didn't use any). The only thing I can figure is some of the fundamental frequencies of his voice must be masked in the right channel somehow. But I can't seem to find the culprit.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

Opinions on the mix otherwise?

Hey John. You've been a posting maniac lately .

I'll preface my constructive criticisms by stating I didn't have much success with this track... not so much from being unable to identify the problems, but being unable to figure out how to fix them.

Maybe part of the frequency masking issue might be because the vocal levels are a little low compared to the rest of the track? Sometimes compression can help with that, but you're not a fan of compression if you can avoid it, so maybe the EQ route is the way to go. Most music produced in this style has a cleaner, more tightly controlled bottom end, so maybe some more high pass filtering in the guitars and vocals would cut the mud and give the vocals and lead guitar solo some room to breathe and let the dropped notes come though a little bit better. Another thing I tried was panning the vocal all the way to the right (where notes kept dropping) and sending it to a very short delay effect panned oppositely and volume matching the send bus to the original signal. It didn't completely satisfy my intentions but it helped keep some of the dynamics. I also tried cutting the upper mids in the guitars a teeny bit and putting some (very light) emulated tube distortion on the lead vocal part to give the mid range a little more content and character, but it wasn't clear to me whether that helped or not so I left it out of my posted mix.

This tune also has some crazy resonance and frequency build-up in the low mids that a lot of us have had a really hard time taming, so it could be that the lower mids are overwhelming the lower content of the lead vocal.

Hopefully some of those outside observations are helpful I had the same problem and wasn't able to fix it, so if you pin down a solution, do share!

Cheers!
-Pauli

(16-01-2014, 09:50 PM)pauli Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe part of the frequency masking issue might be because the vocal levels are a little low compared to the rest of the track? Sometimes compression can help with that, but you're not a fan of compression if you can avoid it, so maybe the EQ route is the way to go.

Actually, when used judiciously on an individual track to achieve a particular effect I'm not opposed to it. In fact, in my mix of Kevin Reeves' "It's About Time" (not yet posted) I actually split the lead vocal over two tracks with the primary vocals on one and the chorus on the other. On the verses I used the same gentle compression I always do; on the choruses I SLAMMED the compression on the voice so I could bring up the music more. This was a case where I was able to use compression to my advantage dynamically, making the choruses louder than the verses so the chorus had that extra "punch" when it arrived.

In this case, though, compression would bring the vocal up in volume, and I already used automation to LOWER the vocals during that final high-register "scream;" when the vocals were on a fixed level the scream was WAY louder than the rest of the vocals to the point of being obtrusive. So for this particular problem you're right; I'd be reluctant to try using compression here.

(16-01-2014, 09:50 PM)pauli Wrote: [ -> ]Most music produced in this style has a cleaner, more tightly controlled bottom end, so maybe some more high pass filtering in the guitars and vocals would cut the mud and give the vocals and lead guitar solo some room to breathe and let the dropped notes come though a little bit better.

Wish I still had the original mix project; sounds like a good idea. If/when I decide to revisit this one to take a stab at fixing that vocal flaw I'll keep that in mind.

(16-01-2014, 09:50 PM)pauli Wrote: [ -> ]Another thing I tried was panning the vocal all the way to the right (where notes kept dropping) and sending it to a very short delay effect panned oppositely and volume matching the send bus to the original signal. It didn't completely satisfy my intentions but it helped keep some of the dynamics. I also tried cutting the upper mids in the guitars a teeny bit and putting some (very light) emulated tube distortion on the lead vocal part to give the mid range a little more content and character, but it wasn't clear to me whether that helped or not so I left it out of my posted mix.

Funny you should mention cutting the midrange on the guitars; that's generally standard procedure for me when working with overdriven electric guitar. I find overdriven guitar and vocals hard to balance together effectively; I find a midrange cut and low and high boost both give the vocals a place to cut through the guitars but this also usually gives the guitars a nice, deep, "chugging" sound I really like.

(16-01-2014, 09:50 PM)pauli Wrote: [ -> ]This tune also has some crazy resonance and frequency build-up in the low mids that a lot of us have had a really hard time taming, so it could be that the lower mids are overwhelming the lower content of the lead vocal.

That makes sense. Hm... might try cutting back a bit on the lower mids on some tracks in the next go-round and see if I can't figure out which tracks are causing the most trouble...

(16-01-2014, 09:50 PM)pauli Wrote: [ -> ]I had the same problem and wasn't able to fix it, so if you pin down a solution, do share!

Will do!