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Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
18-11-2016, 06:19 AM
Post: #11
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
Thanks for your feedback. Listened the unleashed version. The main riff guitar sounds seems a bit off, resonating a bit too much in the 500-1000 hz area? Just wanted to point this out, as your mix otherwise sounds very clean and well planned, and again, the outro is just brilliant. Smile
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18-11-2016, 11:36 AM
Post: #12
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
I listened the unleashed version

SOunds great to me. All the instrument sounds correct. Very controlled package.



Some small tweaking ideas:

- Vox is maybe slightly behind guitars. (I listen in quite low levels)

- Is the organ in choruses too loud?

- THe outro is too long for me.
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18-11-2016, 03:13 PM
Post: #13
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
(18-11-2016 06:19 AM)kapu Wrote:  Thanks for your feedback. Listened the unleashed version. The main riff guitar sounds seems a bit off, resonating a bit too much in the 500-1000 hz area? Just wanted to point this out, as your mix otherwise sounds very clean and well planned, and again, the outro is just brilliant. Smile

Kapu,
Thanks for the listen. I will put an ear again to the main riff as per your analysis (if my girlfriend doesn't shoot me first!). Thanks.

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18-11-2016, 03:31 PM
Post: #14
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
(18-11-2016 11:36 AM)Olli H Wrote:  I listened the unleashed version

SOunds great to me. All the instrument sounds correct. Very controlled package.



Some small tweaking ideas:

- Vox is maybe slightly behind guitars. (I listen in quite low levels)

- Is the organ in choruses too loud?

- THe outro is too long for me.

Olli H,
All good points. The exact placement of the vocal seems to always be a bit of a moving target. I did want the pulse of the hook(s) to dominate, however which makes the vocal placement even more critical. I'm sure we all have questioned our placements. I do understand yours. maybe just an automation tweak would suffice in those few spots.

The Rhodes: Again, I wanted this to really push to pounding pulse of the hook during the choruses. Laying it back seemed to diminish all of the instrumental groups instead of giving it its own space and power for the musical section. Admittedly, there could be a lot of other ways to attain that, some of which I've heard in so many of the great mixes on here. My choice. I'm sorry you did not like it as much as me. Fun, right?

The fade was something I tumbled through my mind a bit. How many phrases? I think it sounds good with three or four but it gets a bit rushed with three, plus I really dig the groove where all the compression is released and it just pumps away into the past. Here's another aspect of the choice for the fade as well as the intro. I was trying to think like a DJ and give options for the cross fade to another kickin' tune...LOL! I think the intro is a pretty identifiable opening signature for the song as well. A lot of us tried for that and some of the ideas are brilliant. It is really a treat to enjoy all of the great ideas which get expressed here.

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19-11-2016, 06:14 PM
Post: #15
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
Just had a listen to your v4 mix -- originally downloaded the v3 one, but just saw you had a new version posted so checked the latest version out instead! Another nice alternative perspective here, focusing more on rich-sounding guitars and deep LF power from the kick. Actually, I wondered whether you might be a guitarist yourself, because you've brought out such a lot of nice tones from those instruments here. For the most part I like your balance decisions too (especially during the main riff), although I do wonder whether the clean guitars in the Mid-section are too loud and full-sounding in context -- I kind of lose focus on the vocal as a listener, and it also slightly undermines the illusion of power and rhythmic energy in the rest of the band. Another couple of things that also feel a bit far forward for me are the banjo transients in Verse 3/4 and the overall level of the backing vocals -- again both tend to make the rest of the backing parts sound subjectively less impressive by contrast for me.

The drum sound has a nice blend to it, which I like, but I'd maybe query the snare sound, which seems very dependent on the instrument's sustain, with very little front-end on the hits. My problem's less a pure sonic thing, it's more that it seems to make the groove lag, to my ears. The bass guitar recordings on the multitrack are quite light on the subs, so I also can see why you decided to let the kick-drum dominate that realm in your mix, but again this seems to slow things down somehow. Personally, I think a little EQ on the bass to give it more fundamental would have allowed you to keep the kick a touch more perky in terms of groove. (In fact, speaking of groove: has your vocal part shifted a fraction early on the timeline? Again, there's just something that feels a little shaky about the groove in your version compared with the others I've heard.)

Your arrangement changes are bold (which is always an endearing quality in my eyes!), and I like the way you shorten the intro to get to the lyrics more quickly, as this is often a canny move on a commercial level. I also like the way the band entry isn't exactly in tempo with the opening SFX section -- it leaves that moment of feeling like I'm 'holding my breath' just before the band arrives, which I often like. My only concern about the intro is that it's such a statement sonically that the actually band entry ends up sounding almost a bit of a let-down! If that's also a concern for you, then maybe you could try limiting the bandwidth and/or the stereo picture of the initial modulation effect? The outro is also a cool innovation, although from a musical perspective I did ask myself whether it might not be overkill to repeat the riff section further, given how often it appears in the rest of the song anyway. I agree it's a cool riff, though, and I could certainly listen to it all day myself -- but I'm a mix engineer, so I'm not sure how well I represent the regular punter in that respect! Smile

Thanks for presenting another thought-provoking vision -- it's a mind-expanding business this mix critiquing!

Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio | Recording Secrets for the Small Studio
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19-11-2016, 06:30 PM
Post: #16
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
(03-11-2016 04:41 PM)Mixinthecloud Wrote:  Version 4
Unleashed Again - Colour Me Red (Contest submission)
This version was adjusted for lead guitar riff content and mastering was altered to ensure least pumping with volume.

Took a listen to the new version. Only two points that jumped out at me:

1) The vocal sounds a little distant, in comparison to the guitars panned hard L/R.
2) The chorus arrives with a little less impact than might be ideal. Like it's missing something on the distorted side (I think that's because the excellent distorted guitar riff is prominent during the verses).

But small quibbles there :-) Its a good mix. Cheers, Jeff

All sound is a distortion of silence / soundcloud.com/jeffd42
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19-11-2016, 09:19 PM
Post: #17
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
Version 4

The intro guitar fx didn't have an impact on me. When the rest of the mix comes in it feels week in comparison with the exciting intro guitars. This is pretty much a taste thing but I thought I would mention that for me it kinda lost the impact.

Everything else sounds very good man. I like how you tried to stick to the center and not so much spreading it. I like that the back vox and those guitars live on the sides L and R.

Good job.

"Mixing for me is the opportunity you get to explore a song to detail and deliver the feeling intended. Mixing is more than faders and knobs, Mixing defines the soul of a song."
Saludos!
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20-11-2016, 02:43 PM
Post: #18
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
I like the balance of your mix and I think you did a good job of showcasing all of the instruments.

My caveats are: (with much respect)

The overheads are bright and shimmery.
The bass guitar is not as present as I would prefer it.
The outro is interesting but it does sound like a loop and is too long, IMO.
The effect in the beginning is maybe over cooked.

Best.

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20-11-2016, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 20-11-2016 06:55 PM by Mixinthecloud.)
Post: #19
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
(19-11-2016 06:14 PM)Mike Senior Wrote:  Just had a listen to your v4 mix -- originally downloaded the v3 one, but just saw you had a new version posted so checked the latest version out instead! Another nice alternative perspective here, focusing more on rich-sounding guitars and deep LF power from the kick. Actually, I wondered whether you might be a guitarist yourself, because you've brought out such a lot of nice tones from those instruments here. For the most part I like your balance decisions too (especially during the main riff), although I do wonder whether the clean guitars in the Mid-section are too loud and full-sounding in context -- I kind of lose focus on the vocal as a listener, and it also slightly undermines the illusion of power and rhythmic energy in the rest of the band. Another couple of things that also feel a bit far forward for me are the banjo transients in Verse 3/4 and the overall level of the backing vocals -- again both tend to make the rest of the backing parts sound subjectively less impressive by contrast for me.

The drum sound has a nice blend to it, which I like, but I'd maybe query the snare sound, which seems very dependent on the instrument's sustain, with very little front-end on the hits. My problem's less a pure sonic thing, it's more that it seems to make the groove lag, to my ears. The bass guitar recordings on the multitrack are quite light on the subs, so I also can see why you decided to let the kick-drum dominate that realm in your mix, but again this seems to slow things down somehow. Personally, I think a little EQ on the bass to give it more fundamental would have allowed you to keep the kick a touch more perky in terms of groove. (In fact, speaking of groove: has your vocal part shifted a fraction early on the timeline? Again, there's just something that feels a little shaky about the groove in your version compared with the others I've heard.)

Your arrangement changes are bold (which is always an endearing quality in my eyes!), and I like the way you shorten the intro to get to the lyrics more quickly, as this is often a canny move on a commercial level. I also like the way the band entry isn't exactly in tempo with the opening SFX section -- it leaves that moment of feeling like I'm 'holding my breath' just before the band arrives, which I often like. My only concern about the intro is that it's such a statement sonically that the actually band entry ends up sounding almost a bit of a let-down! If that's also a concern for you, then maybe you could try limiting the bandwidth and/or the stereo picture of the initial modulation effect? The outro is also a cool innovation, although from a musical perspective I did ask myself whether it might not be overkill to repeat the riff section further, given how often it appears in the rest of the song anyway. I agree it's a cool riff, though, and I could certainly listen to it all day myself -- but I'm a mix engineer, so I'm not sure how well I represent the regular punter in that respect! Smile

Thanks for presenting another thought-provoking vision -- it's a mind-expanding business this mix critiquing!

How embarrassing. Mike, you were spot on. My vocal track was just slightly offset after my arrangement hacks. How embarrassing! Your other thoughts are excellent as well. I will address (or attempt to address them) in Version 5. Again, thanks so much for your input. One note on your comment about the bass guitar content. So many of the tracks needed content filtered in the fundamental area of the bass in the song. Not sure if that is an artifact of the recording space, or the actual content of the instruments. Regardless of the cause, that range needed some heavy dealing. When it was sucked out of the rest of the instruments, that part of the bass just stood out way to predominantly. Looking at the spectral content of the bass showed some serious combing which was dealt with by two hi-q filters to clean up. I may have over-reacted to this resonant range and once I backed it out a bit after your suggestion, the bass lived much happier ever-after.

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on RDS Server with Dante Via (ask for details)
[email protected]


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20-11-2016, 06:48 PM
Post: #20
RE: Colour Me Red @ The Wild-Eyed Sinner's Ball
(19-11-2016 06:30 PM)jeffd42 Wrote:  
(03-11-2016 04:41 PM)Mixinthecloud Wrote:  Version 4
Unleashed Again - Colour Me Red (Contest submission)
This version was adjusted for lead guitar riff content and mastering was altered to ensure least pumping with volume.

Took a listen to the new version. Only two points that jumped out at me:

1) The vocal sounds a little distant, in comparison to the guitars panned hard L/R.
2) The chorus arrives with a little less impact than might be ideal. Like it's missing something on the distorted side (I think that's because the excellent distorted guitar riff is prominent during the verses).

But small quibbles there :-) Its a good mix. Cheers, Jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for the listen and the comments. The energy in the chorus I tried to 'make up' by using the Rhodes. It may mask the guitar or may not be the best approach for that section. I can say the Rhodes is difficult to instantiate considering the thickness of the guitars and bass in that section as well. After listening to the vocal at lots of different levels I swayed toward the laid off edge of the sword partly to ensure the placement of the pulse of the riffs in the song. So you are correct in your assessment of the vocal placement. Again, many thanks for your ears and input.

PreSonus Studio One DAW
on RDS Server with Dante Via (ask for details)
[email protected]


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