Angels In Amplifiers - I'm Alright (mix)

[Shul]

By the comments you have said I think you won't let anyone give you opinions unless its a "wow what a great mix". Ulynch is right on what he said, but if your perspective is "get commercial volume" over a good and well balanced mix then everything you did is OK. Feel free to drop a comment on my mix as well. I'd appreciate it. Just know my mix is nor about the volume.

[Digitaldruglord]

By the comments you have said I think you won't let anyone give you opinions unless its a "wow what a great mix". Ulynch is right on what he said, but if your perspective is "get commercial volume" over a good and well balanced mix then everything you did is OK. Feel free to drop a comment on my mix as well. I'd appreciate it. Just know my mix is nor about the volume.

A mixer has to be open to comments because clients request changes and adjustments and the mixer has to be able to be open to the requests.

It's fair that members giving opinions should themselves have a few mixes up first, make themselves known through their postings first. I'm a new member myself and don't have enough proven material posted where I can start handing out opinions. I offer my perspective in my postings, anyone who has a question (or comment) about the process, I'll answer.

[Shul]

A mixer has to be open to comments because clients request changes and adjustments and the mixer has to be able to be open to the requests.

It's fair that members giving opinions should themselves have a few mixes up first, make themselves known through their postings first. I'm a new member myself and don't have enough proven material posted where I can start handing out opinions. I offer my perspective in my postings, anyone who has a question (or comment) about the process, I'll answer.

OK. Question: you said clipping rule doesn't apply when getting loud volumes.. Why not? Loud doesn't mean good, it just means loud . distortion (unless done on purpose) is bad on a mix.

[Digitaldruglord]

A mixer has to be open to comments because clients request changes and adjustments and the mixer has to be able to be open to the requests.

It's fair that members giving opinions should themselves have a few mixes up first, make themselves known through their postings first. I'm a new member myself and don't have enough proven material posted where I can start handing out opinions. I offer my perspective in my postings, anyone who has a question (or comment) about the process, I'll answer.

OK. Question: you said clipping rule doesn't apply when getting loud volumes.. Why not? Loud doesn't mean good, it just means loud . distortion (unless done on purpose) is bad on a mix.

Clipping is an issue if its pushing out distortion. But, "Clipping" and "Distortion" are 2 different things - A mix that doesn't clip can have distorted objects in the mix and a clipping volume can be controlled by simply turning down the volume (and reveal a tune to not be overall distorted).

Clipping is a danger zone carried over from the days of CD mastering, because a clipping source would make a CD click and crackle with distortion because the medium couldn't deliver the bitrate for such extended volume. Turning down the volume on a clipping CD doesn't cure the clipping damage to the signal because CDs are "encoded" with the damaged information during pulse code modulation (PCM). Digital files are more capable because there is no PCM process, so realizing this, many "commercial" releases (aka loudness war) take advantage of this to deliver these +1 to even +3db files.. breaking all the rules.. This is by no means a proclamation that clipping or highly loud music is what it should be, but if ultra loudness is the goal, it is possible.

I found that MP3 playback has different levels in different players. The MP3 player in this forum plays back 1db louder at full volume slider (from my obervation, and this is common on web mp3 players). So on web playback of mixes where I see red in my Apollo 8, I take the web player volume db down -1 and find playback peak to 0db for me. This is not just my postings but many of the other posts with maximized audio in this community.

The WAV playback in my postings are created at 0db and forces playback in a uncompressed playback engine such as the computer native Coreaudio or Windows Media system. I choose to provide wav versions so the community can hear what I'm hearing, good, bad, or indifferent.

I am polishing up on my 24-bit mixing because I believe the next (very good) wave in music is coming when iTunes move to High Rez delivery, to join specialty services such as HDTracks. With this I hope MP3 fade away because for my taste it compromises the experience of music.

But back to your question, as it stands today, when I load up Tidal, Spotify, or Apple music, every current release is in the red, loud, with no clarity and most with muddy distortion. I've been working on a process to deliver at those peaks (aka "competitive levels") but attempt to retain clarity and a "sense" of dynamics.

I am confident once the craft moves to 24-bit delivery, there should be no more clipping reds (of MP3 and other low bitrate formats) because 24-bit can deliver the full fidelity bitrate necessary.

[Shul]

I am polishing up on my 24-bit mixing because I believe the next (very good) wave in music is coming when iTunes move to High Rez delivery, to join specialty services such as HDTracks. With this I hope MP3 fade away because for my taste it compromises the experience of music.

But back to your question, as it stands today, when I load up Tidal, Spotify, or Apple music, every current release is in the red, loud, with no clarity and most with muddy distortion. I've been working on a process to deliver at those peaks (aka "competitive levels") but attempt to retain clarity and a "sense" of dynamics.

I am confident once the craft moves to 24-bit delivery, there should be no more clipping reds (of MP3 and other low bitrate formats) because 24-bit can deliver the full fidelity bitrate necessary.

So in your gear this mix does not distort like in mine?

[Digitaldruglord]

I am polishing up on my 24-bit mixing because I believe the next (very good) wave in music is coming when iTunes move to High Rez delivery, to join specialty services such as HDTracks. With this I hope MP3 fade away because for my taste it compromises the experience of music.

But back to your question, as it stands today, when I load up Tidal, Spotify, or Apple music, every current release is in the red, loud, with no clarity and most with muddy distortion. I've been working on a process to deliver at those peaks (aka "competitive levels") but attempt to retain clarity and a "sense" of dynamics.

I am confident once the craft moves to 24-bit delivery, there should be no more clipping reds (of MP3 and other low bitrate formats) because 24-bit can deliver the full fidelity bitrate necessary.

So in your gear this mix does not distort like in mine?

I tell you what, there is a mixing competition here: http://www.locomotiveaudio.com/mix - I've submitted mine already. i'm not saying I'm going to win, but if you enter using your username here, and you win, I will PayPal you an extra $500 bonus.

[Shul]

I tell you what, there is a mixing competition here: http://www.locomotiveaudio.com/mix - I've submitted mine already. i'm not saying I'm going to win, but if you enter using your username here, and you win, I will PayPal you an extra $500 bonus.

I downloaded the multitracks. I'll send it in when I'm done. I don't pretend to be a great Mixing Engineer, but I wil give it a shot.

[FlamingBeatz]

It's pretty obvious the master limiter has been pushed way too hard. You don't even have to listen to it to make that conclusiion, just look at the waveform, there is nothing left of the dynamics. There is a diffrence between ''aggressive, power sound, exploring max loudness before distortion'' and harsh, distorted (limting distortion) and pumping.

Please don't come at me with things such as ''commercial records are pushed this far too'' or ''commercial records need to be loud''. If it sounds bad it sounds bad, as simple as that. We are trying to help and give you advice, you should atleast consider it instead of being stubborn and going fully against it.

Edit: It might sound a bit harsh but I dont mean it that way.

[Digitaldruglord]

It's pretty obvious the master limiter has been pushed way too hard. You don't even have to listen to it to make that conclusiion, just look at the waveform, there is nothing left of the dynamics. There is a diffrence between ''aggressive, power sound, exploring max loudness before distortion'' and harsh, distorted (limting distortion) and pumping.

Please don't come at me with things such as ''commercial records are pushed this far too'' or ''commercial records need to be loud''. If it sounds bad it sounds bad, as simple as that. We are trying to help and give you advice, you should atleast consider it instead of being stubborn and going fully against it.

Edit: It might sound a bit harsh but I dont mean it that way.

I agree, and all commercial records today to me sound bad also... this version of the song is purposely pushed this hard, so when I play it in between the latest Coldplay album and Dr. Dre Compton on Tidal, it doesn't sound like a demo. My time gets busy and prevents me from doing recalls on postings in a timely manner, but I hear you.

[Shul]

[quote='FlamingBeatz' pid='41756' dateline='1453762339']

I agree, and all commercial records today to me sound bad also... this version of the song is purposely pushed this hard, so when I play it in between the latest Coldplay album and Dr. Dre Compton on Tidal, it doesn't sound like a demo. My time gets busy and prevents me from doing recalls on postings in a timely manner, but I hear you.

A demo has nothing to do with loudness. I've heard demos that are really loud.. but it's still a Demo (not mixed 100% and not mastered). I'm sure you get our point of your mix being in a bad loudness position with distortion. I wouldn't compare this with a Coldplay song if you truly believe all commercial records today sound bad because it means your mix sounds bad.