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Audio-Technica Demo: 'Loud And Clear'
#1
Well, I can see that there's a lot of people mixing this one and I didn't want to listen to other mixes before I finished mine so I could develop my own ideas.

And here's the result. What do you think of it?

Regards


.mp3    Audio Technica Demo - Loud And Clear.mp3 --  (Download: 10.19 MB)


mixing since April 2013
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#2
Nice to listen to your version , I'm finding this one a good challenge .A couple of things that stand out is the wide top end of the trumpets a touch loud,Sounds like you used a lower pitch vocal harmony in the bridge at 3.09 instead of the root note Big Grin.

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#3
Hi, Don! thank you for the advice. I've changed the trumpets a little bit so they're not that wide and not that high pitched.

About the bridge I must tell you that I did that on purpose. I didn't like much the way the singer performed that part, so I decided to use the other track instead of the original one, giving the impression that there were two singers in the group. I hope that the real singer doesn't get mad at me for that Big Grin


.mp3    Audio Technica Demo - Loud And Clear.mp3 --  (Download: 10.19 MB)


mixing since April 2013
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#4
Just a few quick thoughts while I listen:

The vocal is way too strong in the mids... 400 is really poking me in the eye. Remember that an electric guitars most important contribution is going to be in the neighborhood surround 500 depending on the key, and vocals tend to send a bit bloated in that region, so I'd target the interplay of the vocals and guitars in that region when setting the balance. The vocals are for my ears quite a bit up front and dominating of the spectrum. In a track by Rihanna or Aguillera that strategy makes sense, but I think in this style the rhythm section plays a more important role in the harmonic structure of the mix. The vocal dynamics are overcompressed... I hear lots of artifacts, but I think the bloat in the low to mid frequency range is making it difficult for you to get the compression you need without exposing the processing... so I'd try to get rid of some of that excess before compression until you're able to refine the settings a bit... if there's still a balance issue you can EQ after compressing and you'll probably find it a lot easier to dial it in. Keep your ear out for how the tonality shifts between the different mics, too, because the mults sound very obvious to me... I can tell the the prechoruses were recorded on different microphones if that makes sense.

I agree with Don about the top end on the trumpets... the violin is pretty sandpapery, too. I used really short plate reverbs and saturation to give the high mids a little more density and smooth them out, but there are probably a dozen other things that'd work. Brittle top end always screams for some sort of processing that mimics outboard analog units... most will include some level of distortion that will add harmonics and make it sound smoother. Odd that a little dirt goes a long way toward making something sound smoother?

It feels like I'm always on about master buss compression anymore, but I think you've either got too much or there are too many compressor inserts working in the mix. Master buss compression is a very good thing, but you'd be forgiven for thinking I'm against its use... I'd just like to see more people using it for dynamic management rather than maximizing loudness... because loudness doesn't matter. Peak reduction, mix glue, tightness... it's all very good and a great reason to compress the mix, but if people want to listen to loud music, they can use their volume knobs, yeah? That's just my opinion... but there's also evidence that loudness is slowly becoming less trendy... look to the tremendous success of Random Access Memories, which has a significantly lower average loudness than most other chart albums.

At any rate, I've focused too much on negatives when there's quite a bit I like about your mix, too. The rhythm section sounds great (tame the cymbals a bit) and the vocal with some tweaking will sound fantastic. I love where you've placed the acoustic guitar in the mix... for me this style of music is very well suited to a primarily percussive acoustic guitar. Version 2 is definitely an improvement... and if you let it breathe a little bit I think you'll find taming the odd frequency buildup and automation to be much more productive toward a really solid mix.

Good to have you back, Juan!
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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#5
hey, Pauli! you really gave me some homework! but I'm a good student and I try to get all the information I can everytime I get some advice.

I remember when I was working on the trumpets, I was thinking that I didn't like their high frequencies at all. I decided not to add any saturation because I've always read "be careful because you can totally ruin your track instead of improve it". So I admit that I'm quite reluctant to saturate them. But anyway, I've tried and I really hope both the violin and the trumpets sound better by now.

I've also checked on the vocals and now there's only one microphone track used, so the changes you obviously noticed, no longer exist. I've also checked on the EQ and the compression used.

I checked on the masterbus compressor because that's something that I always do with extremely care so I only tame the highest peaks and make the track sound more cohesive. I saw nothing overcompressing the whole track, so I simply went even easier on it. I also checked on the limiter.

So the changes are subtle, but I really hope the song has improved with them.

I'm glad to be back too, my friend Smile


.mp3    Audio Technica Demo - Loud And Clear.mp3 --  (Download: 10.19 MB)


mixing since April 2013
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#6
Hey buddy, sorry :/ I didn't mean to give you homework. I didn't A/B the first version I heard with the new one, so I'll post my thoughts on what I'm hearing in the new one with "clean" ears.

First thing I'm noticing is that the vocal dominates the mix and makes the rest of the band feel a little small in comparison, although the dynamics in the vocals do feel very properly controlled during the choruses... although the verse vocals I think are pretty well placed. The vocals leading into the chorus are louder than the chorus vocals and I think that might be preventing the choruses from banging the way they should.

I'm not noticing any really serious compression artifacts now... I'm not sure what's different, but the dynamics do sound looser and more relaxed, and that's a good thing for a song like this in my book.

The snare sounds thin... I think you should take a look at the phase relationships going on in the snare mics and overheads, because it sounds like something's phasing pretty hard.

I dunno what can be done about the violin... I'm ready to mute that thing because I can't get it to cooperate either, so I'll not comment on it. The horns sound good to me now, though... what did you change? Often for horns I like mild saturation because horns tend to have spiky harmonics that can be a little difficult to blend into the mix, and saturation will generally make just about anything slot into a mix a little bit better when thicker harmonics are needed... but you're right, it can be easy to ruin the sound in the process. On my mix I saturated the horn channels and routed them all into a plate reverb for depth and a little tonal warmth... I like how it turned out, personally.

So if you decide to play around with this one anymore, I'd suggest lowering the volume of the bridge and chorus vocals relative to the backing band, adjusting compression as necessary. Take a peak at the snare/overhead phase alignment, maybe fiddle with the polarity buttons, too. Lastly, long term mix dynamics, making sure the choruses come in with a splash and are bigger relative to the rest of the mix, could be addressed. Apart from those small quibbles though, it's shaping up and sounding better, at least to my ears. This is a tricky mix, it's really baffling me.
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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#7
hey, Pauli! don't worry, this kind of homework is more fun than the one at school Big Grin

Here's my final version of the song. I'm starting to get a little bit tired of it, so I'm giving it a last chance.

I've improved the snare. No, it was not a phase problem, it was more a wrong compressor settings Confused

You asked me about the trumpets. What I did was use some warm tape saturation and some old tape saturation afterwards. I don't know if it worked or not, but at least I think they don't hurt the ears as much as before Big Grin

I've given a new try to the difficult violin. I've saturated it from 1.9 up and then used a multiband compressor to tame the highest frequencies. I thought that if I made it get a little bit further in the mix, it might help. Whether I succeeded or not, you'll know better than me because you have better knowledge and for what I see, better ears too Tongue


.mp3    Audio Technica Demo - Loud And Clear.mp3 --  (Download: 10.19 MB)


mixing since April 2013
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#8
Just started working on the violin today. (Anyone notice what appears to be AC noise in the background of this track, esp on the third section? ~550 hz) I agree, this one is a challenge. It just sounds like the player for whatever reason just wasn't using enough bow or it wasn't grabbing the strings well (bow tension and/or pressure?) and was getting a pretty thin sound as a result. There's a lot of body ressonance in there as well so that *MIGHT* be an indication that the gain on the mic had to really come up to catch the performance but I'm not entirely sure. Violins are funny instruments. Either they sound really good or they sound really bad. There just doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground. That little bit where the player catches a string somehow is what really grinds on me with this part. (Maybe when the player transitions from an upbowto a downbow there is a fingernail catching?) I'm not 100% sure how to get rid of it but think with a little fader automation, I ought to at least be able to bury it.
Old West Audio
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#9
Guitars seem a bit underpowered and the cymbals slightly thin in this version, although that does mean that the lead vox comes through nice and warm. Vocal levels are a bit unpredictable, though -- verses feel too low in level, for instance.
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