James May: 'All Souls Moon'

[juanjose1967]

Back in the forum after a few weeks pause. I realized that I hadn't mixed this James May's song, so I decided to give it a try.

As usual comments and suggestions are welcomed.

[Olli H]

Sounds excellent to me. I like the overall sound and balances very much.

But as I have a tendency to listen your mixes more carefully (sorry for that ), here’s some very minor ideas that came to my mind to make the mix even better. If you try any of these, be careful not to spoil anything that’s already very good. As there are very small ideas, feel free to bypass them.

Vocal compression is now maybe too hungry. Now it brings up silent consonants too much. Maybe you could lessen the treshold or ratio just a little bit.

At 1.00 starts some instrument that has quite strong high-frequency content. It’s maybe a shaker. Just a small taming there could be a thing to think. Now it’s trying to take same space as some consonants of vocals. Maybe some cutting of shaker somewhere around 5-8k area could leave the space of vocals untouched.

Crash or it’s space at 1.29 feels little odd in headphones. Is it too stereo or something? Same thing 1.45 onwards. Space of ride feels little odd. (Maybe the crash and ride are the same cymbal.)

2:15 onwards is that weird solo. I’m not sure but maybe it should be some kind of duet of bass and bg-vocals. When vocals disappear and solo begins, there’s an empty space that could be filled by that weird bass.

And just a very very small tweaking idea: as bg-vocals are so wide and bright in your mix (nothing bad with that), maybe their starts could be aligned better. Now even small timing issues with bg-vocal come too evident. Listen with headphones those ”YOU’re not alone”, you’ll notice how the ”YOU” word starts in slightly different time.

[juanjose1967]

Hi, Olli!

no harm in paying attention to my mixes. In fact, thank you to your 'good ears' and some other forum members, I turned from being a complete newbie in these matters to someone that can have decent mixes once in a while

I've taken your opinion into consideration and here's the mix with some corrections:

1- I remember that I payed attention to the shaker and cymbal's frequencies at first but I didn't pay attention to the singer's consonants. In fact, I noticed that some of his t's were too bright sometimes, but the idea of conflict with the shaker totally passed by me. So thanks!

2- the OH track is a single stereo track. No left and right. So I tried to make it sound wider. For I can see, it was not a good idea, so I've left it now how it was which sounds better after comparing between the before and after sound.

3- in the solo part, I didn't know exactly what you meant, but I realized that the bass and the Bvocals had some frequency conflict around 500hz. So I've fixed it.

4- I've also aligned the vocals. Now they all sing in better sync

So I think the song is now better than before!

[The_Metallurgist]

there's something odd going on here Juan, did you mistakenly pan an aux buss to the left? it might also explain the level imbalance, giving more bias to the left?

i hate any lossy format with a vengeance, and grimace every time i have to listen to one, not least in a mixing forum where even a modest level of objective feedback can be seriously hampered by the choice of a lower quality encode. i noted your mix has some distortion, then discovered it's 256kbps! i assume it was an oversight but please take care to ensure you encode to the best quality by giving it 320kbps. cheers.

i haven't mixed this song, so i'm not familiar with the tracking, so can't say if the violin during the intro was intentionally mixed to the back of the room, or whether it came like that in the recording? if it was intentional, you did a good job on the selection and application of the reverb emu to give it that impression. however, subjectively, i'm not happy with the violin being pushed back like that, especially during the intro. it's a key part, and key parts shouldn't be pushed back, to my mind, but rather should be given the proverbial spot light. i found it a distraction, which might be sufficient cause to make it an "objective observation". you decide

the wide organ in the stereo balance was odd, it occupied the full width of the sound stage (my headphones might be exaggerating that, however, but it's still "wide"). some might like the creative approach, but i didn't think it suited the genre - it needed to be more real and believable with a position in the mix which suited a more realistic impression? i'm not sure how much of the aux thing might be giving the wrong presentation and fooling my perceptions...have a look. it would be interesting to know what's going on.

overall, i'm struggling with this mix. mainly it's the confusing image of the instruments that's throwing me. and i'm also feeling there's a lack of definition between the instruments as a consequence? dude, before i say any more here....check your gain staging, yeah? let us know what you find. maybe it's just me 'ead that needs gain staging!

[juanjose1967]

Hey, Dave! I like how you make me think about a mix and always offer me an open door to do some research and learn some more!

Here's the mix with a 320kps mp3

No, I hadn't panned anything to the left, but in most parts of the song, the left channel sounded louder than the right one. I've fixed that already and now everything is more balanced.

I liked the idea of having a 'dreamy' violin in the song. But in order to make everybody happy here (including me), I've decided to bring the violin forth and back according to the part of the song it plays. I also like the idea of a non-static instrument, so here it is!

I've decided to put the e-pianos on one side and not taking the whole spectrum. I checked the before and the after, and I like better the after.

And about the 'open door to research' I mentioned before, it's all about gain staging. I still have to read more about it and figure out how to do it right.

Thank you once more for your help and ideas!

[The_Metallurgist]

Here's the mix with a 320kps mp3

cool..

No, I hadn't panned anything to the left, but in most parts of the song, the left channel sounded louder than the right one. I've fixed that already and now everything is more balanced.

oh yeah, that's cool too..

I liked the idea of having a 'dreamy' violin in the song. But in order to make everybody happy here (including me), I've decided to bring the violin forth and back according to the part of the song it plays. I also like the idea of a non-static instrument, so here it is!

i can understand what you mean about the dreamy aspect, however, the reverb applied originally didn't really translate as being dreamy but rather "back of the room". now you've brought it forwards in the mix, things are sounding better.

moving an instrument about in the mix can help masses, speaking generally. it's a good idea when we want it up-front and present in the mix, but drop it back when we'd rather have something else in it's place later on. i think this sort of attention helps to make a mix more interesting for the listener, and can help change the emotional dynamic and transitions to better effect.

i would make an observation, however. in terms of depth, thinking about the sound's spectral make-up is critical and i'm not sure you're working this fully? basically the rule is, the further up front in the mix, the more high frequency content it will have.....and the further back, the less so. simply playing with reverb won't do the job of placement unless this aspect is taken care of at the same time....and not forgetting the volume level (hate the word volume..because it's got nowt to do with loudness!). if either of these things isn't right, it will be a distraction because it won't meet our belief's of space and depth. humans are good at this.....until it comes to making it happen in a mix and we all find it hard to do.

I've decided to put the e-pianos on one side and not taking the whole spectrum. I checked the before and the after, and I like better the after.

me too. however, it's opened up another issue? the keys have quite a bit of bass/low-mid elements. placing this off to one side without having something balancing it on the other will skew the spectral balance of the stereo-field, making it a bit lop-sided. it's especially noticeable in headphones. normally, something like this would be given consideration in the arrangement during composing...or hacked out during Production, but it looks like you will need to get your Producer's hat on and try and find a solution. it's all a challenge, eh?

i've often found that simply changing an instrument's position in a mix can really upset things, especially if the mix is already in a very mature state of progress because of this balancing thing regarding the spectrum, but also in terms of what it's now getting in the way of. and this means the EQ of all the applicable instruments needs to be revisited if masking is to be avoided as much as practically possible.

i note there's a lot of masking in your mix generally, which suggests to me this isn't a straightforward project to mix; the violin especially springs to mind, for example.

i'm not comfortable with the drums, but it's not one thing in particular which stands out, but seems to be a number of minor issues of detail which are cumulatively working against you. have a listen to Bob's (aka "bmullen") version of this song, and check out his drums for a reverence and see what you think.

perhaps also have a listen to some other mixes of the song and see which you prefer regarding the treatment of sibilance in the vocal. i think some closer attention to it would be an advantage. but be careful here, because messing around with high frequencies for even a short period of time can really throw our perspectives right out the window, and we can lose touch with what is really happening - but you already know this. someone might mention also, the lead vocal is a little out of balance with the instruments - edging on the too loud? i don't think it's a problem, per se, but try some REALLY gentle nudges on it's fader and see how it goes. drop the fader right off, then bring it up until it sounds about right - note the level. then pull the fader down a touch, and do it again and see if you are back in the same position. if you end up placing the fader back in it's original slot, then it's fine. as it is at the moment, i'd say it would be fine for radio - nothing wrong with that

Juan, don't get disheartened. i think this is a difficult project perhaps made even harder by your absence from the DAW. but it offers some really good opportunity for building on the deeper and more meaningful aspects of mixing which we can all take advantage of. if you are getting a bit fed up with hearing it, perhaps re-visiting it later on might be a good idea, but think about the concepts in your next mix....

Thank you once more for your help and ideas!

and thank you for sharing your mix with us so we can engage in some active listening and providing us all with an opportunity for discussion.