Howlin - The Metallurgist's alternative perspective....

[The_Metallurgist]

if you're expecting vanilla, i think you've come to the wrong thread


UPDATE (31st August)
by definition, this isn't a remix. the only thing i've done here that is different to the original arrangement (other than mute, delete or sound-shape), is drop a vocal part into the introduction to make the song more engaging during those critical 10-15 seconds where the listener decides if they want to buy-in or hit the skip button.

my vision was to find the emotion in the lyric, and bring it right out, and to give the song transition and dimension, instead of what i felt was a pretty static mix both musically and sonically - it didn't engage me in it's raw state. so, my objective for the instrumentation was to present it as a support for the lyric and the emotional intention behind it; that's what i would want as a musician....and it's what i'd want to hear as the listener. some people need a beat to dance to, others merely connect with the emotion presented by the lyric and supported by the music....and dance to that

i will reply to everyone in due course....i've got my hands full at the moment. meanwhile, for those who don't yet fully understand the difference between a subjective and objective evaluation, i strongly recommend researching; there is one, and it's big!

huge thanks,
Dave

[jeremias666]

I like some of the arrangements changes and add ons. But it chances a lot of times and dropping the beat that much makes the track boring, this track is very beat driven.

I love the vocals with the long delays.

I dont like the drums sound, snare could have more weight and the kick more definition.

[HbGuitar]

A true remix this.....one that takes listeners who are familiar with an original and takes them on a whole different experience..where one never knows what's around the next corner...but still brings us back effortlessly to the main hook.

Great vision here...and execution to match. Editing is seamless to my ears....and attention to detail is excellent....each chorus having their own drum arrangement being proof of that...the hand claps that drop out at 1.04 and 1.12 left me high and dry on first listening .... yet sucked me in on subsequent listens

In terms of observations...i listened to this both at the level presented and at a reduction of 4db - which yields +3db on the K14 meter - a level i mix to and normalize mixes that i listen to.

The only thing that I really observed between the two levels was that at the lower level, the lead vox in the 2nd half of the 1st chorus and all of the 2nd chorus occasionally seemed slightly buried underneath the snare and synth respectively.

Could you dance to this mix?...probably not....is that important?....absolutely not....i would say this is a mix for listening to rather than dancing to....and there's nothing wrong with that imo. I think of this as a chill-out mix...something that reminds us of a previous experience yet allows us to experience the moment differently...and that's what i love about music.

thanks for sharing your vision and having the courage to do so...it has certainly opened my eyes (ears) to other possibilities. Top job

[takka360]

Good mix ,I think the fx are getting pushed to the limit at times but still good.
Nice work

[juanjose1967]

Dave, I didn't quite understand what you meant by "you won't find vanilla here", but as soon as the first notes started, I understood it quite well

I love how dark you've made the song to sound, and that new point of view you've given to it. I don't know if the composer of the song would like those changes, but I do like them and for I can see, I'm not the only one here. So good job!!

[sano]

I love to hear a remix and I think you've done great job here. I love the verse/chorus dynamics you've created.

Maybe it's just me but I feel the fade out came a little too early? I think maybe you didn't want to drag the song out? but I felt the song had reached it's climax and then it was pulled away from me. I think I would of been satisfied hearing another eight bars.

[pauli]

It's hard to objectively evaluate something so very different from what I've heard about 6 million times while mixing this myself. That might stop better men from chipping in. I'm not one of those men, though!

So I have to say, from beginning to end I found your vision bold and courageous. There are a lot of risky tactics at play in this remix, and they pay off... the first time? I think my point here might be related to what jeremias666 mentioned, in that the beat drops a little too often, but I'll take that a step further. A beat drop is of course a brilliant tactic, and you've used it well here... when the chorus kicks in, it really KICKS the hell in! And I love that. However, I think you've overdone it a bit- the first time it made me smile from ear to ear, but I found each subsequent drop to be a little exhausting. There is a similar experience with the various effects and subtle details that are always so profoundly present in your mixes: they're very effective at creating musical tension and pulling the song in a forward direction, and I respect the hell out of that because it's a weak point for me. In this case, though, it's a bit uncomfortable at times, because the tension builds very quickly, is released all at once (in the explosive choruses) and then almost as soon as it's let me go, it assaults my senses yet again!

Obviously my feelings here are related to how I experience music, because I think a lot of people, especially nowadays, really respond to sensory bombardment of this kind. And again, I've heard my much smoother rendition many, many times and I still don't have much distance from it... but it as always you've developed a very ambitious vision and executed it with competence. Your editing skills are quite apparent as always, and the overall sonic signature very much bares your personal stamp... which of course is a compliment in my book.

A couple little oddities I wanted to flag up: The shifted vocal in the intro is a cool idea, but it sounds like it's been rendered out of context because the rhythm lines up with the piano in an uncomfortable way... probably because the original was recorded with the drums beneath. A little bit of nudging a few of the syllables around so that things line up a bit more comfortably would improve the already interesting effect.

Also, there's a strange interplay going on between the snare that's playing the rolls in the loop and the clappy sounding snare that's presented separately... I'm not 100% sure what it is that's happening to be honest, but "it doesn't sound right" whatever that means. To my ears it sounds like the clappy snare is far more aggressively EQ'd and in an entirely different manner. Perhaps that was intentional to create a distinction between the two, which is cool, but a little additional finesse would help, because right now it sounds like the two sounds are originating in different rooms.

Bold, courageous, and very brutally effective, Dave. I will now with much difficulty resist the temptation to open this one up again and wear out the mute buttons

[The_Metallurgist]

I like some of the arrangements changes and add ons. But it chances a lot of times and dropping the beat that much makes the track boring, this track is very beat driven.

i guess if one is a beat-driven listener rather than an emotionally engaging one, then a subjective evaluation like this will always reveal inconsistencies in view-point. and you are not my target market anyway....wrong gender (i'm assuming you're male)

i don't like dark chocolate, and even some milk chocolate isn't to my taste. but it doesn't mean dark chocolate is wrong or that nobody else should like it simply because it's dark. subjective assessments are purely an expression of personal preference - it's a taste thing. it would have helped me more if your feedback was technically oriented.

my perspective is this: it's the music that should support the words in the lyric and what they are communicating. this song isn't about a load of useless, meaningless, irrelevant words (of the sort which can accompany dance-driven/beat music) , but is an emotional love song and the energy in the vocal changes it's emotional value throughout the song's delivery. my vision was to support the lyric with appropriate musical content, not simply run a mundane beat that lacked any sort of groove from start to finish; subjectively and technically speaking of course. the beat was irrelevant to me unless it supported the lyric....the emotion in the lyric was EVERYTHING. caps for emphasis.

I love the vocals with the long delays.

again, this is subjective and purely personal taste. but thanks for sharing it anyway...

I dont like the drums sound, snare could have more weight and the kick more definition.

again, this is totally subjective!

if you want to help people develop their mixing skills, can i ask that you consider giving more of a technical slant to your feedback? simply telling us what you like and don't like is irrelevant to the mixing process...as is all "subjective" assessment for that matter. if you wish to include personal feelings and points of view, that's fine of course, but you need to keep a balance between a technical observation and the subjective view of what does or doesn't work for you personally.

but thanks for listening...

[jeremias666]

I gave technical feedback. Just i dont give it in useless numbers like "kick needs more 5k" or something like that. Even very technical feedback is very subjective.

And telling what i like and dont like is useful too. For example maybe someone will notice the long delays fits the song nicely and will make note of that.

And reading the others reviews i found that no one gave a tecnhnical review and everybody said something in the vein i wrote. Like "i love how dark..." or what pauli wrote isnt very different from what i said but you werent harsh to those people and decided to be harsh with me and almost insult me with the stupid comment of "i guess if someone is a beat driven listener...".


But well i wont make the mistake commenting on any of your mixes again.

[The_Metallurgist]

Good mix ,I think the fx are getting pushed to the limit at times but still good.
Nice work

thanks for dropping by Alan. i had the same feeling too...indeed, some of the ping-pongs needed further working so they were less intrusive, or bringing them in progressively, perhaps widening them as they commenced in order to add some dimension and movement to the width of the mix - but i had to call time on it somewhere having already spent far too much of life's budget! i certainly wouldn't want to put any more fx in here, as i, like you, felt i'd taken it as far as the mix could realistically support them within the framework of my vision. you know when you're pushing your luck when there's no insert slots left!!