Howlin - HB Mix

[HbGuitar]

For some reason, i only seemed to be able to work on this track for an hour or so at a time....usually i can get lost in a track for hours..and time zips by...but this....I'd like mix the drums for an hour and have to go and have a lie down..

[pauli]

As always, a very pleasant mix. The sonics are good in a broad sense and it's very listenable and enjoyable... and your subtlety with the crazy squawking synth is especially telling of your focus on detail. Most folks' first try at this one, we all got ear-drunk to the high frequencies, and we all wound up with Polly the Parrot screaming over the entire song... but it sounds to me like you nailed it. I think your frequent breaks really helped you with the spectrum, because it's really pretty well rounded in that regard.

As for opportunities, I'm having a bit of an issue with the "howlin' at the moonlight" bits after the howls. You've mentioned on several mixes that you feel those bits are too quiet and thin, and in general I agree with you... but it sounds to me like they're smothering the entire mix for a brief moment in this version. For me it would work better if the two parts were around the same volume and the depth perspective were manipulated differently. The reason I say this is that the responses, while loud and big in their own right, are also very heavily exciting a dense reverb, and it's laying a blanket on the drums for me. I would ease up on the overall volume and reverb on the leads, and give a bit more reverb while cutting the highs in the howls... that'd give you your wideness without upsetting the depth perspective.

My observation/opinion is that in this style of music, the strength of the beat should be one of the most critical priorities because that's what's really driving the song. What I'm hearing is that the beat is being sacrificed in favor of reverb/delay in some places, so I'd look into that: thedon, takka360 and I had a long discussion about sidechaining drums to compressors/duckers on pads or reverb channels a while back, and I think that'd be a great way to preserve the lush reverbs you've developed without hurting the song's core drive. In fact, that might turn this into something extremely special. I love your reverbs and delays, in fact, but I wanted to be careful to mention that only after I highlighted that they're taking away from something more important.

Could the bass use a bit more bite/drive? Could the verse vocals be a teeny bit drier so they could come forward a touch?

[HbGuitar]

Hey Pauli. Thanks for your feedback and insightful comments. I guess in every mix, the devil is in the detail.....but especially in this mix given the genre and number of tracks at hand....

I would ease up on the overall volume and reverb on the leads, and give a bit more reverb while cutting the highs in the howls...

I did try a wetter howl and drier response, but to my ears i didn't like the interplay with the extended vowel sounds of the howl and the FX

but it sounds to me like they're smothering the entire mix for a brief moment in this version.

That's kinda intentional on my part....if indeed we are talking about the same thing...but the response is designed to very briefly, at certain points only...swell and get big....and return to normal very quickly...but perhaps i could make this slightly more subtle..i was just having fun and being creative

Could the bass use a bit more bite/drive? Could the verse vocals be a teeny bit drier so they could come forward a touch?

For sure.....I guess on any given day it could be different....I'd probably do it slightly differently next week

My observation/opinion is that in this style of music, the strength of the beat should be one of the most critical priorities because that's what's really driving the song.

True.....I think that this could be easily fine tuned at mastering.......i did a quick EQ test in the master buss with my pultec emu...small bottom boost to bring up bass/kick..small boost at 5K to bring out "smack in snare"......done

As ever, your insights are much appreciated and thought provoking.....I'm certainly producing better mixes as a result of them

[pauli]

I did try a wetter howl and drier response, but to my ears i didn't like the interplay with the extended vowel sounds of the howl and the FX

What about using a comparatively short reverb pulse on the howls and restricting the responses to delays? That wouldn't have the consquences you were avoiding, and was indeed my approach... but it's admittedly cookie cutter, so full credit to you for a more gutsy processing

but it sounds to me like they're smothering the entire mix for a brief moment in this version.

That's kinda intentional on my part....if indeed we are talking about the same thing...but the response is designed to very briefly, at certain points only...swell and get big....and return to normal very quickly...but perhaps i could make this slightly more subtle..i was just having fun and being creative

Yeah, I dig the idea, too. It really gives a lot of power and a sense of hugeness to the vocals that has a really nice emotional punch. And in terms of mix smothering, I'd say "smother away!" but I'd still be careful to make sure the beat cuts through. This is ultimately a dance song, so if the beat gets swallowed, if only for a moment, it might disengage the target audience. Musically and emotionally it's a cool move, but on the dance floor it might be frustrating.

For sure.....I guess on any given day it could be different....I'd probably do it slightly differently next week

With this many tracks, there are at least as many valid interpretations for study. We could go around and around on this one for weeks, because there's so much high quality material to work from.

My observation/opinion is that in this style of music, the strength of the beat should be one of the most critical priorities because that's what's really driving the song.

As ever, your insights are much appreciated and thought provoking.....I'm certainly producing better mixes as a result of them

Don't make me blush I've learned at least as much from you. All of us here have individual ways of looking at sounds and songs, and you earn full respect for actually thinking about what people are saying and trying to listen to the song the way they're hearing it. That's what's going to make you an earning engineer.

[thelongestyear]

Very nice mix. Different, dark'ish tone, I like it. The vox on choruses is a bit bassy for me so it kinda sticks out. Also, the kick(s) could be a little louder cause for me it is what really drives and pushes the chorus (especially with all these ghost notes).

[HbGuitar]

Very nice mix. Different, dark'ish tone, I like it. The vox on choruses is a bit bassy for me so it kinda sticks out. Also, the kick(s) could be a little louder cause for me it is what really drives and pushes the chorus (especially with all these ghost notes).

Thanks for the feedback - I'm glad you liked the mix. Its one of those songs where everyone's versions are so different it can be a real challenge to stay objective so I appreciate your comments - (sorry to take so long to reply)