Ryan Cali - Crazy (hotpantz)

[hotpants]

v1 - initial mix
v2 - re-try from scratch (eq plugin on v1 was demo version expired) but tried to incorporate feedback. I think this version sounds more open both from the low end and high end. Very difficult to keep the bass prominence while letting the kick cut through.

[mikej]

Hi!

Nice mix. I think the bass might be dominating just a little too much though and is perhaps kind of clouding the mix and vocals a bit?

It might be worth checking the bass around 100-200Hz to see if there is a bit of resonance that could be notched out to further help clear up the low end a bit as I find this can sometimes be the case and a little notch can help clean things up a lot. I think I'd also like to get a bit more of a sense of the kick coming through too if it's possible? From memory I don't think it's that easy to get it to cut through in this one. Certainly I don't think I did a great job of this one when I had a try at it. Another thing worth trying to help get a little more clarity in the vocal with respect to the bass - is to scoop out a little bit of the bass (sweep around 200-400Hz ish) whilst listening to the low end of the vocal - and finding the spot where the vocal pops out just a little more.

Anyway - thought I'd post a couple of thoughts I had whilst giving this one a quick listen in case it helps.

Cheers!

[hotpants]

Hi mikej

Thank's for the feedback! Highly appreciate it coming from you. I think you are spot on, I was copying Mike Senior's mix, but no matter how much I tweaked my EQs I couldn't get the punch, cleanliness and focus of the bass and kick, nor that fullness around 3k range on the drums or the vocal treatment. I think after so much tweaking I lost sense of balance and the bass ended up too loud. I must have been tweaking it for 2 weeks at least!

My first version was barely a simple balance and corrective EQ, but I was so impressed with Mike's mix that I had to copy it. It was quite eye-opening to see how much a mix engineer can impart creativity to a mix and improve a song for its intended purposes. I hope one day I can be as certain and bold to modify a song as much but still keep the original message of it and not just destroy it along the way (as I used to do in my first mixes, thinking that big bold EQ moves would do the trick. Turns out its true, but just not those moves! LOL)

I'll do a revision in a couple of days and try your tips out! thx again

[novalix]

Hi,
if you are still planning to give that mix another go, you might consider to try a somewhat visual approach.
Think of a center line of kick, bass and lead vocals as a groove axis. Just concentrate on getting those elements working together (in the frequency domain and dynamicaly).
Everything else falls into place after that.
I've uploaded a take on that idea here.
Cheers.

[hotpants]

Thanks for your feedback Novalix

I uploaded a 2nd try with Mikej's and your feedback. I had to do it from scratch as the EQ I was using was in Demo and had expired. I noticed I was missing compression both on the kick drum and the bass to make it cut through while keeping the bass full and clean. I was only trying with EQ with no avail, but adding a compressor helped. Anyways given that it's almost an entire new mix, I hope I manage to improve upon the prev mix without making new mistakes.

cheers

[mikej]

Hi!

Mix v2 sounds much better to me. Kick and bass is actually ok I think, but I do hear the struggle of keeping the bass where you want it.

It might be worth checking out 'Mixed By Ali' on Youtube for some mix inspiration. He's got a few full studio mix sessions up from a couple of years back. If nothing else I find it gives you an idea of a sound to aim for. He also did a series of (4?) mixtapes of tracks he's mixed that you might be able to find too.

Maybe you used some of these ideas already, but here's a list of a few things I can think of off the top of my head that might be worth trying in different combinations:

- Find and boost the fundamental of the kick a bit. Sweep the low end with a narrow-ish boost, you'll kind of hear a clear note when you get it.
- Using a limiter on the bass might control the 'bloom' enough to hep get the kick to just poke over the top.
- Experiment with little saturation on the kick.
- Sidechain the bass with the kick.
- Send the kick and bass to a seperate bus and compress them both together. Play with the levels of each.
- Parallel compress the kick and blend it in so you can feel it over the bass.

Cheers!

[hotpants]

Hi Mikej

Funny that you mention Mixed by Ali. I started mixing 'Side Effects Project - Sing with Me' the other day and ran into the same issue as here:big bass without losing punch and clarity. That led me to look for advice and ended up finding Mixed by Ali's 3h video on YT. Haven't seen much, but definitely looks like a great watch. I didn't know about the mixtapes, that's amazing!

I haven't tried a limiter on the bass. That's interesting, i'm gonna give it a try. Some of the other ideas I have, but I think I could improve on them. I think something I missing is to know exactly which frequencies to cut and which to boost to find that spot.

I'll come back to this mix later on with fresh and hopefully more skillful ears to try again. Thanks a lot for your advice!

[mikej]

Hi,

The Ali videos are great for listening to get a feel for a hip hop mix and how he approaches fitting it all together. Notice that one of the things he does is to periodically go round the mix soloing parts, two or three at a time, as the mix progresses to ensure all the parts are still working well together.

I think for me, the main thing is to decided if it's the kick or the bass that is going to take the low end spot and then to eq accordingly. I think I usually have the kick taking the low end and then I high pass the bass to give the kick room. Depends on the instrumentation though. Sometimes you might want the bass on the low end instead. It also depends on the genre a bit too. If you've got a low 808 bass and and a more punchy kick you can kind of eq a dip in the bass to let the kick frequencies poke through the middle of the bass.

You can also try duplicating the bass over a couple of channels. A low pass filter on one copy, and a high pass on the other will give you low bass on one fader, and mid/high bass on the other, which might help to balance it with the kick. You can then perhaps also try distorting the low or mid bass separately, or whatever.

Maybe some other forum members will post some other suggestions here that might help you with getting the low end right in this mix.

Cheers!