The Elephant mixed by Dschaust

[Dschaust]

Hey,
here is my attempt for this Song.
 
This was the first time for me mixing while using a reference Track.
And the Workflow with references was a bit difficult. “Three days Grace – The Mountain” was the one I choose, because most of the Songs`s from this Genre I was looking are from 10-15 years ago. But I had a lot of trouble because I did not really get close to the sound of this Song.
I did use this reference in the end for the loudness and the Frequency spectrum (which was by it`s own helpful for the overall sound).
Mainly for the Low End Volume especially Kick Drum I referenced to some other Songs.
Also I did not listen to the original mix so far.
 
So there  are still some points where I’m not sure in this mix. But before I write something about this I hope I get some feedback, comments and criticism for this version.
 
Thank you in advance!

[Tambo Man]

over all a good mix. Listened to your ref track and the first thing that pops out in the low end that was different with your track is the your bass guit has more lows.
I think a hi pass would help this and bring the kick out more. Bass could be helped by a sams amp effect on the Amp track. something to give that mid presence.
Also the drums could pop more. A slightly fatter snare sound could help. The ref track also has a huge room sound on the snare.
The vocals are a bit dynamic and pretty essey and could use some effect on the choruses.
Cheers

PS no reason to fret over the age of a song. this is all for practice anyways.

[Dschaust]

Hey Tambo Man, thank`s for your reply!
I changed a few thinks according to your feedback.
In the Bass-Bus I put in a slightly low shelf and a slight boost. I used already booth Bass Tracks. The DI just for the Low`s, the Amp Track with Distortion for > 90Hz. Is this the same effect you mentioned with the SamsAmp?
For the Drums I turn up the volume of the Snare a bit and also the volume of the parallel Compression Bus. Also a bit more Reverb on the Snare.
In the Chorus Vocals I changed a bit of the volume of the backing vocals. And for the Main vocals I (hopefully) optimized the DeEsser.

So overall i did only small changes, i don`t want to overdo something.

I mentioned the age of the Song because my impression was that Songs from this age have different low end compared to modern Songs.
With all this changes the Sound is still diffferent to the reference Track. But i think there is a lot to work and do things different to achieve this sound. And i´m not shure if this serves the Song.

[Tambo Man]

Three things stick out for me on the new mix. Bass n kick are fighting each other around the 120hz area. the vocal distortion in the chorus may be a touch to much, seems strong in the 3k.
And im not sure on this one and it could just be a processing decision you made but the snare sounds like there could be a phase problem.
Personal taste here but id like to hear a more scooped kick sound.

[Dschaust]

Hey.
You are right with the vocal distortion. There is a boost at ~3400 Hz in my EQ. I can turn it down a bit. 

For the Snare sound I checked the wave form before I startet. Check the .jpg
When i switch the phase it seems that the snare looses a bit of the low end. So as far as I understand this topic, there is no phase issue? Or i`m wrong with this?

And for the Kick & Bass I need to do some Homework and more ear training. I tried a few EQ settings in the drum bus, bass bus and single tracks, but I can`t here a noticeable difference .

For teh kick sound you mean more low end, less mid`s? There is a boost at ~5,2kHz that the Kick cut`s more through the Mix.

Thank`s for your feedback!

[Tambo Man]

Hey.
You are right with the vocal distortion. There is a boost at ~3400 Hz in my EQ. I can turn it down a bit. 

For the Snare sound I checked the wave form before I startet. Check the .jpg
When i switch the phase it seems that the snare looses a bit of the low end. So as far as I understand this topic, there is no phase issue? Or i`m wrong with this?

And for the Kick & Bass I need to do some Homework and more ear training. I tried a few EQ settings in the drum bus, bass bus and single tracks, but I can`t here a noticeable difference .

For teh kick sound you mean more low end, less mid`s? There is a boost at ~5,2kHz that the Kick cut`s more through the Mix.

Thank`s for your feedback!

The first time I heard this song was listening to your mix so had to download the tracks to check things out. 
 
Maybe check with the OH and Rm tracks. sometimes big eq moves or a Hi Pass filter can change the phase enough that it needs flipped.
The Hi tom track is out of phase for sure. Also some of the drum tracks looked timed aligned, like the kick ( should be a small space between the inner and outer mics) and the room and over head mics, which are perfectly aligned. I think the room and outer kick tracks sound better when delayed some, like placing then further from the kit. I did the kick mic about 2 ft further back and the room about 5 ft further back. 

All IMHO. For the kick sound i was referring to a large cut around 250hz to 400hz. buss both tracks together and apply eq then turn down the outer kick some to get more smack from the inner mic.  
The bass I feel the amp mic sounds fantastic by itself. Add compression and saturation to taste. HI pass and let the Kick drum own the sub frequencies and hi clicks while the bass has the mids. 

As for the low and low mid mud theres just alot of stuff going on in the 100hz to 200 hz area. the synth tracks are really heavy there and the vocals then add the bass and kick.

 Just want to reiterate that this is only my taste, but on this song the reason I like the kick sounding snappy is it has the effect of placing the kick on top of the beat and ahead of the bass, Makes the song drive more. 

" I tried a few EQ settings in the drum bus, bass bus and single tracks, but I can`t here a noticeable difference  ."
It just takes time and practice, keep at it!

Ill post my mix so you can hear my perspective and trust me my stuff stinks as much as anyone else's  

[Dschaust]

Hey.
So I tried a lot of things but honestly I can`t hear a big difference with all the Drum editing.
The most effect I noticed was a deep cut in a Kick Bus as you mentioned around 300-400 Hz. But with ~10dB 

A lowcut on the Synths at ~200Hz was really a good Tip especially in the verse.


I compared my Mix with your Mix (well done!) and the original Mix. Phuuu there is a million miles to go for me 
I noticed that my Mix compared to the other Songs is very dry. Surprisingly i thought about that in comparisson to my reference Song too. But there i tought it is enough room, delay etc effects. Maybe that`s because the past I exaggerated this effects almost in all my mixes.

I will step back a few days from this Mix. But then i will try to match the vocal effects and the drum punch to your and/or the original song.

Thanks for your feedback and your mix. 
That gave me a lot of good food for thought!