(12-05-2014, 04:43 AM)pauli Wrote: I actually cut the treble with a high shelf on the master bus :S because it was a little grating for me...
Hm... well, that explains the lack of high end definition here; I was wondering about that.
Would you mind simply re-exporting this mix as it is without that high shelf filter so I can have a listen?
Outside of that, this I really enjoyed this! Love the nice thump you got out of the kick! One thing I didn't like that surprised me, though: the vocals have almost no reverb on them, and that makes them sound pretty lifeless to my ears. That surprises me because aren't you the reverb guy?! This is not the kind of issue I'd expect to hear with one of your mixes... I also feel the vocals could be spread out wider stereo-wise; the stereo image feels a little constrained on the music, too (though this could be the result of that high shelf filter you mentioned; loss of high frequency, where the directionality is, can also narrow stereo image).
One other thing. I love the way you brought out the hammond a bit during the quiet interlude when the strings come in. However, the strings themselves I felt were way too low; I think they're part of the dramatic flow of the song at that point and need to be pushed a lot further to the front.
Sounds like a great work-in-progress, though! I'm looking forward to hear your first round of tweaks!
As I've become aware of my preference for loads of reverbs, something odd has happened and I've begin undercooking them for fear of overcooking them
Well in this case you're undercooking them, believe it or not; this is better but, <scottish brogue>"We need more power to the reverbs, sir! We canna get to warp speed without 'em!"</scottish brogue>
Actually, the lead vocals don't sound right to me. They sound boxy, like they're coming out of cheap speakers; I think you may have rolled off a little too much on the low end of them. The lead vocals are also way too far forward; as a result the music is pushed to the background and is losing a lot of power. You need to bring them down a good 3-4 dB at least. Also, I think the guitars, relative to the rest of the instruments, could be louder. And that Electro Hit hits way too hard relative to the overall volume of the music.
On the upside, though, listening to the music itself you've got some impressive definition and detail going on, extremely difficult to do with a 69 track mix. Referring to the music itself, sans vocals, aside from bringing up the guitars a bit I think that part of the mix is working extremely well.
So overall? Yes, better. But we still need more cowbell!
(19-05-2014, 02:45 AM)Pedaling Prince Wrote: Well in this case you're undercooking them, believe it or not; this is better but, <scottish brogue>"We need more power to the reverbs, sir! We canna get to warp speed without 'em!"</scottish brogue>
Yeah, I'm always tempted to up the ante on verbs and have tried to become more subtle in their usage. I referenced a few additional tracks and dialed it in more appropriately
pedaling prince Wrote:Actually, the lead vocals don't sound right to me. They sound boxy, like they're coming out of cheap speakers; I think you may have rolled off a little too much on the low end of them.
The low end was part of the culprit, but there wasn't enough high end, either. My speakers tend to lie to me about what the high end sounds like, so I fine tuned it in my reference phones.
pedaling prince Wrote:The lead vocals are also way too far forward; as a result the music is pushed to the background and is losing a lot of power. You need to bring them down a good 3-4 dB at least.
When I added some of those verbs in the first round of tweaks I didn't put nearly enough effort in rebalancing everything to make room, and it made the problem even worse. This is also related to a monitoring issue I've only become aware of just recently, but headphone use fixed it quite nicely I think
pedaling prince Wrote:Also, I think the guitars, relative to the rest of the instruments, could be louder. And that Electro Hit hits way too hard relative to the overall volume of the music.
Yeah, I allowed more high end to enhance the definition of the mix and widen the stereo image, but as that made it unacceptably loud I overcompensated. In this mix you'll hear a 50/50 compromise.
pedaling prince Wrote:On the upside, though, listening to the music itself you've got some impressive definition and detail going on, extremely difficult to do with a 69 track mix. Referring to the music itself, sans vocals, aside from bringing up the guitars a bit I think that part of the mix is working extremely well.
Thank you Clarity is always my top priority... my musical background (before becoming a guitarist) was in classical music, so I tend to "serve the music" on dense pop mixes like this and mix the vocals last... and somehow they always end up too loud. My speakers sit on the desk much to closely together and I think it's skewing my perception of the center of the stereo image, but now that I'm aware of the problem I can be more vigilant and avoiding it
Thanks for your feedback... I'm quite a bit more satisfied with the mix I have now... the original was a sonic version of throwing my hands up in the air in frustration and stepping away until I could renew my perspective. I'll post my thoughts on your mix this evening after work
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
Well you certainly created a lot of clarity and definition with you mix and for me too it's one of my top priorities when mixing. Though I think maybe in this case, to my ears anyway ..maybe a bit too much?
I feel a lot of the power and body of the instruments has been lost and they should come together more to thicken the mix. Kind of like a wall of sound effect, creating a powerful, full sounding mix. Why else would so many instruments and backing vocals be layer in tracking. Thats my thoughts on the matter anyway. lol
I like that you made the bass slap part sit out from the mix as it really does sound great, but for me it seems to be pushed too far, as it sits far, far above anything else in your mix and needs pulled down.
Yes, I hear what you're saying about having too much clarity now that I've had some time. I think a bit more low mid will glue it together- my room has a nasty low mid resonance between 110 and 180 and I tend to overcompensate. I'm also wondering if maybe a tape saturator would help in this respect too, or a master bus reverb.
You're right about the slap bass, too. I think I fiddled with some attack/release times to give it more punch and didn't compensate for the volume increase. Whoops!
Thanks for feedback!
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
Nice sounding mix you've achieved here. I agree with Sano about the extreme clarity which may make the different instruments/voices sound too separated from each other, while sounding great each on their own.
You may also want to reassess the balance since the lead voice sounds to me a little bit buried in the mix from time to time, and yes the slap parts of the bass are somewhat overwhelming.
Great achievement nonetheless, considering the complexity of this multitrack !
Well, sano and EKN just addressed two of my concerns... I agree with them completely.
I also feel the vocals still sound a little thin, but better. And that reverb is spot on now, not overcooked and not undercooked, just nice and el dente.
One thing. When you DO go to fill this mix out a little more don't bury that wonderful bass slap effect; that's something I tried to bring out a bit in my mix, too; love that sound.
(22-05-2014, 01:36 AM)pauli Wrote: I think at this point we're mainly talking about heavy handed cutting, right?
Do you fellas think the best solution is narrower cuts, less aggressive cuts, or a little of both?
Nice sounding mix you've got so far! I love the reverse cymbal going into the verse and interlude
I would suggest a variation of somewhere in between narrow and broad aggressive cutting, especially around the 400-900hz area mainly on your BG vox; while they're sounding really nice together, they make the lead feel small and over power the rest of the mix. You can still have them dominate, but if you cut away some room for other things, they'll play much nicer with everyone else
One thing I didn't like that surprised me, though: the vocals have almost no reverb on them, and that makes them sound pretty lifeless to my ears. That surprises me because aren't you the reverb guy?! This is not the kind of issue I'd expect to hear with one of your mixes... 
I also feel the vocals could be spread out wider stereo-wise; the stereo image feels a little constrained on the music, too (though this could be the result of that high shelf filter you mentioned; loss of high frequency, where the directionality is, can also narrow stereo image).
