Pain remains

[SonicTramp]

Thanks for the listen. Cheers!

[motomojo]

Thanks for the listen. Cheers!

A nice safe mix sounds almost identical to several others. 
Everything sounds nice but this is a song about pain and i aint feeling any in this mix.

[SonicTramp]

Thanks for the listen. Cheers!

A nice safe mix sounds almost identical to several others. 
Everything sounds nice but this is a song about pain and i aint feeling any in this mix.

Thanks for leaving a comment. I'll take the first but reject the latter since expressing pain is not remotely my intention. I don't even know what to do to achieve that. You expected too much of me, man. I've heard that that kind of expectation can damage a man for life, you know, just a little too much.  Sure, I mean it is the ultimate goal, right? but that's far in the future. So far away I don't even bother to think about it. I can barely get the instruments together let alone make them...emotional. But it'll come soon enough. One must learn to crawl before one can walk is the conventional wisdom, isn't it? You want me to run while all I can do is crawl, man, and that ain't kind (just thinking aloud). But I am curious as to how would you do that, make the listeners feel the pain of this song as a mixer? One would think that's the job of the performers and producers not the mixers. But I have been known to be wrong before. Am I on the verge of great harvesting here? I hope so and will be greatly disappointed if not. And yeah, thanks for taking the time, really, to leave a comment.

[motomojo]

Thanks for the listen. Cheers!

A nice safe mix sounds almost identical to several others. 
Everything sounds nice but this is a song about pain and i aint feeling any in this mix.

Thanks for leaving a comment. I'll take the first but reject the latter since expressing pain is not remotely my intention. I don't even know what to do to achieve that. You expected too much of me, man. I've heard that that kind of expectation can damage a man for life, you know, just a little too much.  Sure, I mean it is the ultimate goal, right? but that's far in the future. So far away I don't even bother to think about it. I can barely get the instruments together let alone make them...emotional. But it'll come soon enough. One must learn to crawl before one can walk is the conventional wisdom, isn't it? You want me to run while all I can do is crawl, man, and that ain't kind (just thinking aloud). But I am curious as to how would you do that, make the listeners feel the pain of this song as a mixer? One would think that's the job of the performers and producers not the mixers. But I have been known to be wrong before. Am I on the verge of great harvesting here? I hope so and will be greatly disappointed if not. And yeah, thanks for taking the time, really, to leave a comment.

Sorry if i was a bit forward. No way to know what experince level folks are at here.
You're doing fine where you're at it will come to ya in time.
You're mixing with your ears at this point however in time you will realize that the ears are just a delivery system to your heart where your creativity and personallty start to enter your workflow and you will tap into the emotion
That is there to be used to make an impact on the listener.
One example of pain in this track.
Open hat the drummer is wailing away providing enhanced emotion to the vocal.
You may not understand at this point but you will.
Don't be afraid to go way out of the box and make sure you are having fun.

I've had a wonderful 30 year career mixing live touring with awesome artist but i'm still and always learning.
Wrapping my old brain around this digital
Stuff has been a challenge but i still mix from the heart.

[SonicTramp]

Ha! with 30+ yrs experience and you used it to compare to us? Quite a huge measuring stick, I'd say. I just started to hear things 3 months ago and still discover new things almost daily. You see the gap bet us? I can barely get the snare to snap in the first 5-6 hours of working. (I used the word crawl bc I think I am just a baby in this business. Hope that gets across).

A note on the emotional aspect of mixing. Our abilities to detect emotions vary from person to person. The same with our hearing. The same with our visions. Your ability to detect pain, sadness, frustration, etc, (emotions) and the amount thereof, I can safely say, is ranging from little to vastly diff to mine and, possibly, many others. I mean look at the amount of influences around us. Would you still feel the pain of this song listening in diff environment, say, at a party where you're trying to get laid with a... hot metal chic?

Here, to me, is a place to learn. Most of us here ranging from beginner to somewhat adequate. And, if not all of us, most need technical advises, tricks, tips, etc. (Those who actually come here hoping to learn, not to wave their manhood around trying to prove something or, worse, looking for validation. They can do that to/from their gfs. I don't need to see that.). You'd do a better service if we concentrate on that. Point it out to us, man, and show us how to do it is a better course of action when you listen to our mixes, especially when you're capable. And just the technical stuffs. Don't give us bread while we're thirsty. And the less adjectives the better. Some of us don't know what warmth in music is but most will understand that we need more/less bottom end ~100-250Hz, for example. Clean, clear, and to the point criticisms and solutions. With that many years under your belt, I am sure you can do that no problem here. That would make you a hero for sure. At least, to me. I wish more people with your caliber come here to teach us, even if it's out of pity but... and so we must do without, stumbling in the dark, in unfamiliar terrain, and without guidance. Sounds like fun?

[motomojo]

Ha! with 30+ yrs experience and you used it to compare to us? Quite a huge measuring stick, I'd say. I just started to hear things 3 months ago and still discover new things almost daily. You see the gap bet us? I can barely get the snare to snap in the first 5-6 hours of working. (I used the word crawl bc I think I am just a baby in this business. Hope that gets across).

A note on the emotional aspect of mixing. Our sabilities to detect emotions vary from person to person. The same with our hearing. The same with our visions. Your ability to detect pain, sadness, frustration, etc, (emotions) and the amount thereof, I can safely say, is ranging from little to vastly diff to mine and, possibly, many others. I mean look at the amount of influences around us. Would you still feel the pain of this song listening in diff environment, say, at a party where you're trying to get laid with a... hot metal chic?

Here, to me, is a place to learn. Most of us here ranging from beginner to somewhat adequate. And, if not all of us, most need technical advises, tricks, tips, etc. (Those who actually come here hoping to learn, not to wave their manhood around trying to prove something or, worse, looking for validation. They can do that to/from their gfs. I don't need to see that.). You'd do a better service if we concentrate on that. Point it out to us, man, and show us how to do it is a better course of action when you listen to our mixes, especially when you're capable. And just the technical stuffs. Don't give us bread while we're thirsty. And the less adjectives the better. Some of us don't know what warmth in music is but most will understand that we need more/less bottom end ~100-250Hz, for example. Clean, clear, and to the point criticisms and solutions. With that many years under your belt, I am sure you can do that no problem here. That would make you a hero for sure. At least, to me. I wish more people with your caliber come here to teach us, even if it's out of pity but... and so we must do without, stumbling in the dark, in unfamiliar terrain, and without guidance. Sounds like fun?

I think you're thinking im looking down on you.
I'm not. And i'm not comparing you to me.
I was a beginner once as well and didn't know anything this was 1980 and i was not even interested in mixing.
I was in aviation school working on being a airplane mech renting a room off campus in a house where one of my room mates played bass and his band rehearsed there a couple nights a week.
They talked me into mixing their rehersals though i had no clue but after looking the mixer over it seemed like my stereo. vol, bal, low mid hi eq aux's i didn't understand but i just went with that.
Obviously i had some talent right from the start and within a year i was mixing several bands around town and aviation was out.

All my learning was in rooms full of people so my mistakes and progress was always in full view and folks can be quite cruel as they tell you you suck. This site you are shielded from the general publics opinion. Try keeping focused when some drunk is in your face.
This is a rough biz and a thick skin is required 
It's not polite and can get quite stressful.

As far as it being fun stumbling in the dark with no guidence back then there was absolutly no help, stumbling was the reality but you figure it out if you stick with it and use the harrasment as motivation.
Watching over experinced engineers shoulders. When i could was valuble to my understanding of what mixing was about.
I have a very different method being selftaught and it is a bit odd to others but it works for me.
I'm no good at techincal matters and the mechanics of it all. For me it's all feeling I use the tools to reach an end but i can't tell you say what compressor setting will give you the snappy snare. I make it happen but i don't actually pay attention to where i set things. When it sounds and feels right i stop but i cannot tell you where settings are as i don't look i've moved on.
My advice will always be about feeling and emotion as i'm not technically profecient and just never cared about it, i got the sound i was after and clients were happy.
I'm here not to show off but to learn more on the digital end of things. i retired in 2009 when my mom was diagnosed with dementia and cared for her till her death in 2018.
I was 61 then and being out of the biz for 10 years all my contacts had moved on so i built a studio and figured i would give the digital thing a try. I missed mixing and i wanted to learn more about studio mixing as it is quite different than live. I am making that transition and starting to feel like i have a handle on it
I would love to help less experinced but so far have had no luck starting a dialog with anyone here.
I miss the days of engineers getting together off tour and busting balls on bad mix tapes and sharing any new skill or tip we had picked up.
I guess those days are long gone.
I wish you the best on your journey it's a very satisfying career.
Cheers

[SonicTramp]

That's alright, man. It takes sometime but you'll find your crowd. Sharing experiences and knowledge is always a good thing, imo.

Anyway, I came back and gave it another shot, trying to get it loud. Nothing fancy, just a bunch of limiters strapped to almost every track. The goal is maximum all the way up to 11.

[Philip]

Hey....this awesome, Really Nice mix 
Dums sound a bit clear, so maybe i like to hear more crushy drums Room .....you know what i mean, a Gated one  would be perfect mix 
Cheers

[SonicTramp]

Hey....this awesome, Really Nice mix 
Dums sound a bit clear, so maybe i like to hear more crushy drums Room .....you know what i mean, a Gated one  would be perfect mix 
Cheers

Ha! there is no perfect mix for me to be had for the time being. But that's the goal for all of us, right? Thanks for being kind tho. I still make moves that the pros would shake their heads and roll on the floor laughing. I don't mind bc I am still learning. Once I am done, I don't think they'll laugh anymore.

Sure, man. There are only 5 processors we have to learn. If they can do it, we can do it. The changing of the guards is not an exception; it's the rule. Don't forget that. Thanks for leaving a comment.

[SonicTramp]

I have a little trick on (EQ) I want to share with you guys on frequency balancing. If, let's say that when I listen back to the mix and think that the guitar's a little bright. I would put an new eq (let's call it #2) either the begin of the chain (I always have the first slot open just for situation like this. You, on the other hand, may have to move your plugs around to do that) or the last place (the best place, imo). The point is to use it to affect the whole track w/o interfering with those current being used. I then would hone in around 3k(center) + give it a medium Q and yank it down quite aggressively (the sudden change will help the ears to latch on to determine if the location is correct), set it where I want and listen to the mix again with the move in place while playing with the Q to get it as small as I can and still do the work. If that's cool and help tame the top end then I go back to the EQ(#1) and add the move and then get rid of the EQ2, take it out of the chain completely. You can just leave it there if you need it. I am not sure that is the best way to do but it helps me identify frequency problem and provide a solution quickly; it also helps telling my ears if I am barking up the right tree. I do the same for masking. Try it and come back here to let me know if it works, and if you have better way, share it. it works on individual track as well as stereo bus. Thanks for reading.