Umphrey's McGee - Crucial Taunt

[mikej]

Hi,

My attempt at this one.

Cheers!

Updates:

Mix 2.0 - backed off the limiter a couple of db.
Mix 3.0 - Kick 2db down.
Mix 4.0 - More kick definition.

[Y's Man]

Love the sound and balance on this might just be clipping a bit too often and possibly losing something on the limiter

[mikej]

Hi!

Hey thanks for checking it out.

Yeah you might be right. I do tend to push the limiter for the rock tracks. Although most of the sound is in the balance and eq commercial tracks still seem to be very loud, so for better or worse, I try to aim for that too.

I think it's the kick that maybe taxing it a bit too much at some points when it gets busy. I felt I was having difficulty getting it to cut through and it's maybe just a hair loud in the mix than it needs to be, and maybe has a touch too much low end. I notice with rock tracks it's mostly the click of the kick that gives the impression of a loud kick drum and they maybe don't have as much low end as you think. I might be able to thin out the bass a touch too.

I might have a go at a slightly less squashed version later today.

(I've also got lazy not bothering about true peak overs after mp3 conversion too - as I notice most stuff seems to go over)

Cheers!

[Y's Man]

Hi!

Hey thanks for checking it out. 

Yeah you might be right.  I do tend to push the limiter for the rock tracks.  Although most of the sound is in the balance and eq commercial tracks still seem to be very loud, so for better or worse, I try to aim for that too.

I think it's the kick that maybe taxing it a bit too much at some points when it gets busy.  I felt I was having difficulty getting it to cut through and it's maybe just a hair loud in the mix than it needs to be, and maybe has a touch too much low end.  I notice with rock tracks it's mostly the click of the kick that gives the impression of a loud kick drum and they maybe don't have as much low end as you think.  I might be able to thin out the bass a touch too. 

I might have a go at a slightly less squashed version later today.

(I've also got lazy not bothering about true peak overs after mp3 conversion too  - as I notice most stuff seems to go over)

Cheers!

I think it just need the limiter dropping back a touch, do you use tape emulation? i find that helps on the master for the lows and clipping, i personally like a woofy kick and think the drums sound great

[mikej]

I think it just need the limiter dropping back a touch.

Ha. Yes  you are right.  I'll be sure to give that a try first .

do you use tape emulation? i find that helps on the master for the lows and clipping

Yeah I get what you mean, it's a good suggestion. 

I tend to mostly avoid it at the moment though - for a few reasons. 

For me, the main thing I liked about tape emulation (and 'analog' plugins in general) was that I found it was really mostly an in built eq curve (slight bump in the lows, and rolled off top end) more than anything in the way of harmonics as such that seemed to be making the difference to me. 

I also figure the final limiting will add in enough in the way of distortion.

The other reason is that I ditched a whole boat load of plugins a while back when I decided not to bother updating them.  I do remember Waves J37 had some cool eq curves in it.  I have also spent time playing around with clipping, etc too in the past, and experimenting with stuff like putting a limiter first on each channel, etc.

I do very occasionally add some saturation and a bit of eq on the mix bus though to get that same sort of effect, but I guess I get concerned about over doing it.  I did add some saturation on the bass in this mix though.

For me it's also important that any plugin that creates distortion has oversampling and proper filtering to avoid aliasing.  Which I suppose is strange considering how heavy I limit mixes .

I dunno.  I sometimes put a little saturation or whatever on the mix bus and not sure if it sounds better or just different, so I take it off again.  Sometimes it does stay on though.

i personally like a woofy kick and think the drums sound great

Thanks.  Appreciate the feedback there.  The raw tracks and playing on this one I think is really good which probably helps.  (There's a lot less snare and hi hat in the vocal mic than is usual for Telefunken sessions.  I kind of missed that challenge aspect with this session to be honest!)  I think the aim of this one was for more of a studio style recording than a live band capture as such. 

I think I maybe like the low end a little tighter.  It's getting that balance right. 

It seems with rock you need to get everything exactly right, eq and balance wise to get that right on the edge, but not quite over feel.  Not easy at all.  It seems like it should be straight forward, but it really isn't.  Also needs just the right mid range pressure from the guitars which is also really hard to get right.

Cheers!

[mikej]

Hi!

I've just added mix 2.0. It's the same mix but with the limiter backed off a couple of db.

Cheers!

[Y's Man]

Hi!

I've just added mix 2.0.  It's the same mix but with the limiter backed off a couple of db.

Cheers!

its a very slight change but to me if feels like its breathing more now

[latanielvss.]

Hey Mike , listening to v2 it's sounding great , the kick is a bit hot, sitting out of the kit and above the mix though. Neat trick is to turn down your monitoring low and this will help you more easier identify things poking out of the mix. Nevertheless awesome mix.

[mikej]

Hi!

Thanks. Yes, I agree that's a good technique. I usually give that a go if I'm having issues with vocal level or whatever. Not sure if I feel the kick is that hot, but I shall try to post a revision tomorrow with it a bit lower in the mix. Initially I felt it perhaps wasn't cutting through enough so I made some changes to get it a bit more present before I posted the first mix, but maybe it was ok.. Perhaps I just need to turn my sub up a touch or something.

Cheers!

[mikej]

Hi!

Added revision 3.0 with kick mic 2db down. Is it about right?

Cheers!