(05-10-2021, 11:48 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: Well, you guys talked me into it, especially after watching Scheps' video (thanks MikeJ). That's just too much weight on me, so I decided to go back to the cans and give them another try after a couple months stayed completely away. It's not like I am taking a big risk or anything. This time, tho, I hear things differently, and it seemed easier to work with, especially the bottom end.
I spent about 6-8 hours learning how they sound and react to my moves, and it's not too bad. What I did differently was, yeah, a lot of LP and HP on the bass, things that I wouldn't normally do, not this drastic. For example, the sineoid bass (bass2) was LP all the way down to, good Lord, 230Hz. Bass 1 LP to 6kHz, and bass 3 HP to 528Hz and LP to 9kHz. One the bottom end is sorted out, I found that the rest is much easier to mix. For example, I couldn't for the life of me got all the guitars all represented, and that piano is buried down there somewhere before I did that to the bass. I also couldn't get the snare at the transition part from the chorus to break to slam either.
I hope I do better with headphones. That would save me a lot of money (to treat the room) and heartaches (sucky mixes). I think my mix translates better when mix with headphones and check with monitors than the other way around. The most important thing is to sort out the bass. Or suffer the consequences like I did. I remember reading somewhere that the pros spend a lot of time working on the low end, and only now I know why.
Let me know what you think of the mix and whether I should stick with headphones (preferred) or abandon them for the HS8. I think the headphones helps me but I would be more confident if you agree too. How does it translate on your ends is what I really want to know. Thanks for the listen. No need for long post (unless you want to), just a thumps up for a go ahead is good for me. Thanks
sounds like you have the low end under control now, no need to limit to mixing on headphones just reference for low end as the hs8 are well regarded and the rest of the mix was good above the bass. I can say from experience that using only headphones is tiring.
(05-10-2021, 11:48 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: Well, you guys talked me into it, especially after watching Scheps' video (thanks MikeJ). That's just too much weight on me, so I decided to go back to the cans and give them another try after a couple months stayed completely away. It's not like I am taking a big risk or anything. This time, tho, I hear things differently, and it seemed easier to work with, especially the bottom end.
I spent about 6-8 hours learning how they sound and react to my moves, and it's not too bad. What I did differently was, yeah, a lot of LP and HP on the bass, things that I wouldn't normally do, not this drastic. For example, the sineoid bass (bass2) was LP all the way down to, good Lord, 230Hz. Bass 1 LP to 6kHz, and bass 3 HP to 528Hz and LP to 9kHz. One the bottom end is sorted out, I found that the rest is much easier to mix. For example, I couldn't for the life of me got all the guitars all represented, and that piano is buried down there somewhere before I did that to the bass. I also couldn't get the snare at the transition part from the chorus to break to slam either.
I hope I do better with headphones. That would save me a lot of money (to treat the room) and heartaches (sucky mixes). I think my mix translates better when mix with headphones and check with monitors than the other way around. The most important thing is to sort out the bass. Or suffer the consequences like I did. I remember reading somewhere that the pros spend a lot of time working on the low end, and only now I know why.
Let me know what you think of the mix and whether I should stick with headphones (preferred) or abandon them for the HS8. I think the headphones helps me but I would be more confident if you agree too. How does it translate on your ends is what I really want to know. Thanks for the listen. No need for long post (unless you want to), just a thumps up for a go ahead is good for me. Thanks
sounds like you have the low end under control now, no need to limit to mixing on headphones just reference for low end as the hs8 are well regarded and the rest of the mix was good above the bass. I can say from experience that using only headphones is tiring.
*Thanks, man. I'm indifferent to whatever format, monitors or headphones, as long as it helps my mixing. And yeah, why limit myself to just one or another, right? Yeah, they do, the HS8. It's not them, it's the room I am in. But, I put some (yeah, still duffle bags and blankets ) absorbers in the first reflections and it sounds like I am in the RFZ (reflection free zone). That helps me hear the low end more accurately. And it reproduces the bass just like the way I hear it in the headphones, beefy and clean.
I used to get really tired and fatigue mixing with headphones. I hated it. But at the time I couldn't get the monitors even if I wanted to. Even worse, I didn't know what I was hearing or doing. The compressor was a constant nightmare. Forget about the EQ. If you ever seen a thoroughly defeated man, look no further, me after a long night battling with it. But out of the love of god I stuck with it thru thick and thin, mostly thin. I bought the HS8 soon as I could, roughly 3 months ago, with great hope that they would help me mix better. They didn't, not inside my tomb of a room. Imagine the disappointment. Yeah, like you're on the last bud and your "friend" is on vacation until next week. Such quiet desperation!
Anyway, I came back to the headphones to avoid the room. Surprisingly, they don't sound too bad at all. I hear...things. I guess rolling in the mud for a couple years should make one dirty enough. It only makes sense that I should hear better than I used to. It's been more than 3 years. Mixed 3 songs straight to test consistency and no tired, no fatigue, just a little stiff on the neck, but there is always a gf to take care of that. All 3 sound similar to each other despite diff genres, very consisting on the low end, instruments are better represented, etc. So I think that the reason we get tired and fatigue is bc we don't hear things correctly and we spend too much time chasing the ghost.
The very first thing I do is to sort out the low end. There is nothing in the middle that I want, just the very low (LP) and very top (HP) of the bass. The rest will be filled in by the guitar, piano, pad, etc. All of them are reeked with mid. If I happen to LP/HP too much, I can always put them back while mixing along. I find doing that allows me to work longer, less frustration, and better mixes bc I can hear how the compressor/EQ/delay/reverb reacts to my moves lead to better decisions lead to, our ultimate goal, better mixes.
I just want to share my experiences and some thoughts about monitoring system and how they work for me for your entertainment . Your experiences may differ. The main thing is I got the bottom end. That's all that matters! Cheers, and thanks for your time. I appreciate you.
06-10-2021, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2021, 01:55 PM by mikej.)
Hi!
Lets compare the mixes!
First up is the headphone mix, then it switches to the speaker mix. Roughly level matched both to peak at -6db. I didn't quite get the files lined up exactly, so the transition is not as smooth as is might be. I think it's good enough for comparison purposes.
Tonally the two mixes are a little different. To me the headphone mix has better midrange - certainly that synth figure is more prominent in the headphone mix. The speaker mix has better low end punch (listen to the kick) and weight (bass) - but the mids are perhaps not as well defined. Certainly that synth figure is quite buried in the speaker mix by comparsion. The headphone mix might be a little bright in that 5k area.
How does the comparison file sound to you - if you listen on headphones, and then on the speakers? Compare the kick, bass, snare, midrange (synth figure), vocal and the high end between the two mixes.
Maybe the headphone mix needs more kick, and the speaker mix more synth?
Interesting!
Cheers!
Just uploaded a mix/master? Waiting for comments? Why not give back and critique a mix/master, or two!
06-10-2021, 02:20 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2021, 02:22 PM by Y's Man.)
(06-10-2021, 01:54 PM)mikej Wrote: Hi!
Lets compare the mixes!
First up is the headphone mix, then it switches to the speaker mix. Roughly level matched both to peak at -6db. I didn't quite get the files lined up exactly, so the transition is not as smooth as is might be. I think it's good enough for comparison purposes.
Tonally the two mixes are a little different. To me the headphone mix has better midrange - certainly that synth figure is more prominent in the headphone mix. The speaker mix has better low end punch (listen to the kick) and weight (bass) - but the mids are perhaps not as well defined. Certainly that synth figure is quite buried in the speaker mix by comparsion. The headphone mix might be a little bright in that 5k area.
How does the comparison file sound to you - if you listen on headphones, and then on the speakers? Compare the kick, bass, snare, midrange (synth figure), vocal and the high end between the two mixes.
Maybe the headphone mix needs more kick, and the speaker mix more synth?
Interesting!
Cheers!
Listening on new headphones(beyerdynamic 770) like you said the first one is more present in the low mid range and the second has more weight to it, they actually both sound fine and nothing like before, everything seems controlled, my personal preference is the speaker mix as i like thick kicks and sub lows but both work, a combination of the two would possibly be muddy, looks like problems sorted as you are hearing what is translating here, sorry i cant listen on speakers as i have headphone only setup for now
06-10-2021, 02:52 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2021, 02:55 PM by Lucas Alber.)
Hi! :)
I like tonal balance on your headphone mix a lot. It's like removing a blanket. Everything got way cleaner.
I've got some general feedback:
- Recheck your sub 50hz low end at the buildup and chorus (you can use a lowpass filter to make out the problems more easily) there is some low-end rumble, and it seems that in the exact moment the bass changes from the effect track to the subbass track there is interference between the two tracks.
- I screenshotted my loudness meter after playing your buildup and chorus. Notice the drop in the middle, that is when the chorus should hit.
(@Y's Man: My 770 are quite V-shaped, maybe that's why you like the more midrangey speaker version? :) )
I just compared our four mixes (Y's Man, mikej, Sonic) side by side. Quite interesting! Really tells a lot about listening environment and mixing style. The differences are enormous!
06-10-2021, 03:05 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2021, 03:11 PM by Y's Man.)
(06-10-2021, 02:52 PM)Lucas Alber Wrote: Hi!
I like tonal balance on your headphone mix a lot. It's like removing a blanket. Everything got way cleaner.
I've got some general feedback:
- Recheck your sub 50hz low end at the buildup and chorus (you can use a lowpass filter to make out the problems more easily) there is some low-end rumble, and it seems that in the exact moment the bass changes from the effect track to the subbass track there is interference between the two tracks.
- I screenshotted my loudness meter after playing your buildup and chorus. Notice the drop in the middle, that is when the chorus should hit.
(@Y's Man: My 770 are quite V-shaped, maybe that's why you like the more midrangey speaker version? )
Only got them today have been using steel series gaming headset previously and waiting on an audio interface so have a max volume for now (80ohm version) but i must say there is so much more space now, i prefer the speaker version on all 3 headphones i have as the kick is hitting more in the 60hz range? sounds thicker anyway im no expert, yes i like all four of those mixes its great that even in this digital age there is still character in each
*Yep, I heard the same thing. The headphones mix sounded brighter and less muddy. The monitor mix is beefier but also muddier. I think I did it before I put more absorbers between the HS8, right in front of me against the wall in the backs of the speakers. The mud might have come bc of that. I just couldn't hear the bass clearly with the monitors. I am not quite sure but after that was done, the bass sounds more solid, less wavy and boomy, and it decays faster without hanging around taking its sweet time as before. It looks like my room is not too bad after all that "treatment." Still rough around the edges but what isn't, right?
My main concern was the bottom end, the bread and butter, so to speak. The rest of instruments are, relatively, much easier to handle once the kick/bass find their places in the mix. The kick poses a little less of a problem for me, perhaps bc it is constant in pitch and the dynamics is not as wildly as the bass. But I'll keep working on them and hopefully someday I'll be able to nail them down. It's not an impossibility, right?
The important thing is I hear what you guys hear now, not effortlessly like you guys yet but start to recognize the differences. I am still on unfamiliar terrain. But, even more importantly, I start to hear my moves clearer now, especially with headphones. That encourages me to go on for more discoveries. It feels like I just finish the first page of the entire encyclopedia set. And it turned out it was the acknowledgement page .
Thanks, man, for doing all that. It helps enhancing my knowledge, and I am always grateful for that.
I like tonal balance on your headphone mix a lot. It's like removing a blanket. Everything got way cleaner.
I've got some general feedback:
- Recheck your sub 50hz low end at the buildup and chorus (you can use a lowpass filter to make out the problems more easily) there is some low-end rumble, and it seems that in the exact moment the bass changes from the effect track to the subbass track there is interference between the two tracks.
- I screenshotted my loudness meter after playing your buildup and chorus. Notice the drop in the middle, that is when the chorus should hit.
(@Y's Man: My 770 are quite V-shaped, maybe that's why you like the more midrangey speaker version? )
*thanks, man, for the time. Yeah, I guess the blankets are on the wall instead of my mix now . O.k. I see what you mean. I will work on it more and see. Thanks for the feedback. And yeah, the bass is always the trouble maker. I feel the pain most of the time, man. But somewhat a masochist, I kinda enjoy the process. I love mixing. Thanks.
First up is the headphone mix, then it switches to the speaker mix. Roughly level matched both to peak at -6db. I didn't quite get the files lined up exactly, so the transition is not as smooth as is might be. I think it's good enough for comparison purposes.
Tonally the two mixes are a little different. To me the headphone mix has better midrange - certainly that synth figure is more prominent in the headphone mix. The speaker mix has better low end punch (listen to the kick) and weight (bass) - but the mids are perhaps not as well defined. Certainly that synth figure is quite buried in the speaker mix by comparsion. The headphone mix might be a little bright in that 5k area.
How does the comparison file sound to you - if you listen on headphones, and then on the speakers? Compare the kick, bass, snare, midrange (synth figure), vocal and the high end between the two mixes.
Maybe the headphone mix needs more kick, and the speaker mix more synth?
Interesting!
Cheers!
Listening on new headphones(beyerdynamic 770) like you said the first one is more present in the low mid range and the second has more weight to it, they actually both sound fine and nothing like before, everything seems controlled, my personal preference is the speaker mix as i like thick kicks and sub lows but both work, a combination of the two would possibly be muddy, looks like problems sorted as you are hearing what is translating here, sorry i cant listen on speakers as i have headphone only setup for now
*Thanks, man, for the feedback. I appreciate it. Now that the low end is sorted out, I guess there is always the mid and the hi to tend to, right? Thanks a lot, man. At least I feel more confident strapping myself in for another mix.
) absorbers in the first reflections and it sounds like I am in the RFZ (reflection free zone). That helps me hear the low end more accurately. And it reproduces the bass just like the way I hear it in the headphones, beefy and clean.