Brian C Cai Fei Hong-never let you go- Sonictramp

[mikej]

[SonicTramp] Please mind your language so schools and colleges don't block the site. A quick edit wouldn't go amiss there.

[Y's Man]

Brian C Cai Fei Hong-neverletyougo-sonictramp_3.mp3

The intro sounds pretty good. I like how the guitars sound. I like the gated effect on the one guitar track. But, when the bass comes in things start to kind of fall apart. The saw portion of the bass is really loud and the low-end seems extremely lacking and as a result the tracks ends up losing a lot of energy.

Thanks for the comment, man. I listened back to my mix and, tbh, I don't hear what you heard, man. The bass is fine where I am at. The same with the saw-bass, nothing "really loud" (my translation: a kick in the eye with hot sauce poured in afterward) or "extreme lacking" (6 feet under, non-existence) as you stated. These are terms reserved for really bad mixes, and I don't think my mix is that bad . Since our mixes depend much on our equipment and the room (mine sucks admittedly), the differences we hear can be attributed to that. What is your set up? The severity of your comment warrants an investigation, not just on my part but yours as well. Identify where the problem exists is 1/2 of the battle already. Cheers!

He is right mate i agree exactly with what he said, when the drop comes all bass is lost and the low mids on the saw in the build up come through very strong, i am listening on headphones with 20-20k range so i think there is a bass problem in your monitoring

I actually think there's no problem with the bass, as the spectral balance is just fine. Instead, there is a massive drop in loudness. In the buildup the mix is at -8 LUFS and in the chorus at -12 LUFS.

*Thanks Lucas Alber for rescuing me from a world of hurt. I was about to call an audiologist for an appointment bc it ain't cool, man. A complete loss of bottom end is something to cry about. Yeah, in this business it means death to the mixer, specifically, me. That also means CLA is keeping that throne warm but not for me, the hope and dream of my little life. Ain't life a bitch? As you can see, quite a serious matter. So I did what a sane mixer would do, made a copy of the mix, sent it to my phone, brought it to my car to play. No, not that drastic. The bass is fine. My ears are fine. That means I have no choice but to argue with these guys and risk being...whatever to them. But 2 out of 2? That can't be wrong, can it? For the benefit of the doubt I spent a bit of time and effort to move my speakers around and see. No, not that either. I can hear some gain/loss in some places but nothing I care about. Then I started to panic. Yeah, man, nothing feels as bad as seeing your hope and dream slipping all the way to the sewer keeping company with the feces. So I did what I usually do when stressed out, took a long hit from the bong accompanied with a small little shot to wash it down while contemplating my next scam to bring back the bass. Then I got your post. Then another hit but for different purposes.
Btw, when you said "massive drop" can it be interpret as a massive rise for the chorus? Is that a problem? The mix is still in good flow, right? Or not? Anyway, thanks for stepping in and save me from undeserved miseries. Cheers!

If you cant hear what we are hearing there is a serious problem for you for everything under 200hz or thereabouts, the kick completely dissapears after the drop then comes back in the bridge like part. the higher register is fine. Its not that the bass doesnt exist but there is a massive perceived volume shift on the drop, Looking at it on the graph you have the kick 2 hitting a fair few decibels less than kick 1. If you dont believe us check it out visually yourself. Also if you are hearing solid bass from the synths again its there but very low in the mix so shouldnt be coming through strong, especially as you are peaking over 0 the bass should be very solid but its not.


Here is the tonal balance after the first chorus part, it will come up when kick 1 is playing but drop back here when kick 2 is

[Lucas Alber]

*Thanks Lucas Alber for rescuing me from a world of hurt. I was about to call an audiologist for an appointment bc it ain't cool, man. A complete loss of bottom end is something to cry about. Yeah, in this business it means death to the mixer, specifically, me. That also means CLA is keeping that throne warm but not for me, the hope and dream of my little life. Ain't life a bitch? As you can see, quite a serious matter. So I did what a sane mixer would do, made a copy of the mix, sent it to my phone, brought it to my car to play. No, not that drastic. The bass is fine. My ears are fine. That means I have no choice but to argue with these guys and risk being...whatever to them. But 2 out of 2? That can't be wrong, can it? For the benefit of the doubt I spent a bit of time and effort to move my speakers around and see. No, not that either. I can hear some gain/loss in some places but nothing I care about. Then I started to panic. Yeah, man, nothing feels as bad as seeing your hope and dream slipping all the way to the sewer keeping company with the feces. So I did what I usually do when stressed out, took a long hit from the bong accompanied with a small little shot to wash it down while contemplating my next scam to bring back the bass. Then I got your post. Then another hit but for different purposes.
Btw, when you said "massive drop" can it be interpret as a massive rise for the chorus? Is that a problem? The mix is still in good flow, right? Or not? Anyway, thanks for stepping in and save me from undeserved miseries. Cheers!

(I was commenting on Brian C Cai Fei Hong-neverletyougo-sonictramp_3.mp3)
To be honest, I missed the impact. It feels like a compressor/limiter is turned off at that moment. Normally, I do not recommend looking at waveforms, but on yours you can clearly see what is happening, so maybe have a look.

Edit: But Yes, Y's Man is right, you are loosing most of the loudness in the low end.

[SonicTramp]

*Thanks Lucas Alber for rescuing me from a world of hurt. I was about to call an audiologist for an appointment bc it ain't cool, man. A complete loss of bottom end is something to cry about. Yeah, in this business it means death to the mixer, specifically, me. That also means CLA is keeping that throne warm but not for me, the hope and dream of my little life. Ain't life a bitch? As you can see, quite a serious matter. So I did what a sane mixer would do, made a copy of the mix, sent it to my phone, brought it to my car to play. No, not that drastic. The bass is fine. My ears are fine. That means I have no choice but to argue with these guys and risk being...whatever to them. But 2 out of 2? That can't be wrong, can it? For the benefit of the doubt I spent a bit of time and effort to move my speakers around and see. No, not that either. I can hear some gain/loss in some places but nothing I care about. Then I started to panic. Yeah, man, nothing feels as bad as seeing your hope and dream slipping all the way to the sewer keeping company with the feces. So I did what I usually do when stressed out, took a long hit from the bong accompanied with a small little shot to wash it down while contemplating my next scam to bring back the bass. Then I got your post. Then another hit but for different purposes.
Btw, when you said "massive drop" can it be interpret as a massive rise for the chorus? Is that a problem? The mix is still in good flow, right? Or not? Anyway, thanks for stepping in and save me from undeserved miseries. Cheers!

(I was commenting on Brian C Cai Fei Hong-neverletyougo-sonictramp_3.mp3)
To be honest, I missed the impact. It feels like a compressor/limiter is turned off at that moment. Normally, I do not recommend looking at waveforms, but on yours you can clearly see what is happening, so maybe have a look.

Edit: But Yes, Y's Man is right, you are loosing most of the loudness in the low end.

*That's alright, man. We all hear things slightly differently, and that's not a problem. What worried me was all the adjectives being used (extreme loss, super loud, etc). Usually, those are to look for, right? So that worried me a great deal. Yeah, I lost some impact on 1 hit right after the break. I knew that but couldn't find the track, just too many FX and only 1 hit, not to mention track count. I found it and brought it up a bit and all is fine.
One thing I should mention tho. Some of us, me included, I make a huge assumption here, are not quite confident on our mixes. When commenting one should try to be correct in both listening and describing. For example, if I listened to your mix, I did, and wrote that your guitars are completely buried in the mix and that your mixbus comp is crushing your mix, while both are not true, would raise your doubt about your mix, your hearing, your room, and your skill or mine. They bring much heartaches than one can imagine.

Anyway, thanks for spending the time. On the brighter side of thing, I readjust my position and found a better place. Gave it another try and see. I am still in the process of treating my room, and each time I find a new position I do a mix and try to hear the differences. The mix you heard was among one of them. Now you know why it worried me. Moving heavy stuffs around alone with a brand new hardwood floor is harder than one may think. Thanks.

[Y's Man]

*Thanks Lucas Alber for rescuing me from a world of hurt. I was about to call an audiologist for an appointment bc it ain't cool, man. A complete loss of bottom end is something to cry about. Yeah, in this business it means death to the mixer, specifically, me. That also means CLA is keeping that throne warm but not for me, the hope and dream of my little life. Ain't life a bitch? As you can see, quite a serious matter. So I did what a sane mixer would do, made a copy of the mix, sent it to my phone, brought it to my car to play. No, not that drastic. The bass is fine. My ears are fine. That means I have no choice but to argue with these guys and risk being...whatever to them. But 2 out of 2? That can't be wrong, can it? For the benefit of the doubt I spent a bit of time and effort to move my speakers around and see. No, not that either. I can hear some gain/loss in some places but nothing I care about. Then I started to panic. Yeah, man, nothing feels as bad as seeing your hope and dream slipping all the way to the sewer keeping company with the feces. So I did what I usually do when stressed out, took a long hit from the bong accompanied with a small little shot to wash it down while contemplating my next scam to bring back the bass. Then I got your post. Then another hit but for different purposes.
Btw, when you said "massive drop" can it be interpret as a massive rise for the chorus? Is that a problem? The mix is still in good flow, right? Or not? Anyway, thanks for stepping in and save me from undeserved miseries. Cheers!

(I was commenting on Brian C Cai Fei Hong-neverletyougo-sonictramp_3.mp3)
To be honest, I missed the impact. It feels like a compressor/limiter is turned off at that moment. Normally, I do not recommend looking at waveforms, but on yours you can clearly see what is happening, so maybe have a look.

Edit: But Yes, Y's Man is right, you are loosing most of the loudness in the low end.

*That's alright, man. We all hear things slightly differently, and that's not a problem. What worried me was all the adjectives being used (extreme loss, super loud, etc). Usually, those are to look for, right? So that worried me a great deal. Yeah, I lost some impact on 1 hit right after the break. I knew that but couldn't find the track, just too many FX and only 1 hit, not to mention track count. I found it and brought it up a bit and all is fine.
One thing I should mention tho. Some of us, me included, I make a huge assumption here, are not quite confident on our mixes. When commenting one should try to be correct in both listening and describing. For example, if I listened to your mix, I did, and wrote that your guitars are completely buried in the mix and that your mixbus comp is crushing your mix, while both are not true, would raise your doubt about your mix, your hearing, your room, and your skill or mine. They bring much heartaches than one can imagine.

Anyway, thanks for spending the time. On the brighter side of thing, I readjust my position and found a better place. Gave it another try and see. I am still in the process of treating my room, and each time I find a new position I do a mix and try to hear the differences. The mix you heard was among one of them. Now you know why it worried me. Moving heavy stuffs around alone with a brand new hardwood floor is harder than one may think. Thanks.

Ive just listened to the newest one mate and i know you dont want to hear this, and i am geniunely trying to help but its still happening and my fear for you is that there is a really obvious terrible sounding bass fx that you dont seem to be hearing in the lower register, it seems to be all happening in the sub ranges, i suggest getting your hands on some good headphones to check yourself. You shouldnt worry about skill as this is clearly something you are just not hearing

[Lucas Alber]

Hi!

Sorry, but you won't like my reply.

Your new mix is still lacking in the low end. In this case, the term "a lot" would be indeed appropriate:
To be precise, in the chorus the kick needed approx 12db (that is like quadrupling the volume) and the sub bass should be brought up in the mix too even more than 12db. (I cannot simulate that with an EQ).

Maybe try to reference against an industry track of similar genre using a low pass? The higher registers are well-balanced. I am no expert, but I thought hearing loss in the lows is not that common, is it?
Could be that your room is exaggerating the bass a lot?

Feel free to PM if you have more (specific) questions. Maybe we can figure out the problem together?

[SonicTramp]

*Thanks Lucas Alber for rescuing me from a world of hurt. I was about to call an audiologist for an appointment bc it ain't cool, man. A complete loss of bottom end is something to cry about. Yeah, in this business it means death to the mixer, specifically, me. That also means CLA is keeping that throne warm but not for me, the hope and dream of my little life. Ain't life a bitch? As you can see, quite a serious matter. So I did what a sane mixer would do, made a copy of the mix, sent it to my phone, brought it to my car to play. No, not that drastic. The bass is fine. My ears are fine. That means I have no choice but to argue with these guys and risk being...whatever to them. But 2 out of 2? That can't be wrong, can it? For the benefit of the doubt I spent a bit of time and effort to move my speakers around and see. No, not that either. I can hear some gain/loss in some places but nothing I care about. Then I started to panic. Yeah, man, nothing feels as bad as seeing your hope and dream slipping all the way to the sewer keeping company with the feces. So I did what I usually do when stressed out, took a long hit from the bong accompanied with a small little shot to wash it down while contemplating my next scam to bring back the bass. Then I got your post. Then another hit but for different purposes.
Btw, when you said "massive drop" can it be interpret as a massive rise for the chorus? Is that a problem? The mix is still in good flow, right? Or not? Anyway, thanks for stepping in and save me from undeserved miseries. Cheers!

(I was commenting on Brian C Cai Fei Hong-neverletyougo-sonictramp_3.mp3)
To be honest, I missed the impact. It feels like a compressor/limiter is turned off at that moment. Normally, I do not recommend looking at waveforms, but on yours you can clearly see what is happening, so maybe have a look.

Edit: But Yes, Y's Man is right, you are loosing most of the loudness in the low end.

*That's alright, man. We all hear things slightly differently, and that's not a problem. What worried me was all the adjectives being used (extreme loss, super loud, etc). Usually, those are to look for, right? So that worried me a great deal. Yeah, I lost some impact on 1 hit right after the break. I knew that but couldn't find the track, just too many FX and only 1 hit, not to mention track count. I found it and brought it up a bit and all is fine.
One thing I should mention tho. Some of us, me included, I make a huge assumption here, are not quite confident on our mixes. When commenting one should try to be correct in both listening and describing. For example, if I listened to your mix, I did, and wrote that your guitars are completely buried in the mix and that your mixbus comp is crushing your mix, while both are not true, would raise your doubt about your mix, your hearing, your room, and your skill or mine. They bring much heartaches than one can imagine.

Anyway, thanks for spending the time. On the brighter side of thing, I readjust my position and found a better place. Gave it another try and see. I am still in the process of treating my room, and each time I find a new position I do a mix and try to hear the differences. The mix you heard was among one of them. Now you know why it worried me. Moving heavy stuffs around alone with a brand new hardwood floor is harder than one may think. Thanks.

Ive just listened to the newest one mate and i know you dont want to hear this, and i am geniunely trying to help but its still happening and my fear for you is that there is a really obvious terrible sounding bass fx that you dont seem to be hearing in the lower register, it seems to be all happening in the sub ranges, i suggest getting your hands on some good headphones to check yourself. You shouldnt worry about skill as this is clearly something you are just not hearing

*Thanks for the comment. I guess I chose the wrong position to sit in. I'll work on it more and see. Thanks. Btw, I don't mind you pointing out what's wrong with my mixes. I can't imagine another way to learn. Thanks

[SonicTramp]

Hi!

Sorry, but you won't like my reply.

Your new mix is still lacking in the low end. In this case, the term "a lot" would be indeed appropriate:
To be precise, in the chorus the kick needed approx 12db (that is like quadrupling the volume) and the sub bass should be brought up in the mix too even more than 12db. (I cannot simulate that with an EQ).

Maybe try to reference against an industry track of similar genre using a low pass? The higher registers are well-balanced. I am no expert, but I thought hearing loss in the lows is not that common, is it?
Could be that your room is exaggerating the bass a lot?

Feel free to PM if you have more (specific) questions. Maybe we can figure out the problem together?

* Thanks Lucas. I think we can dismiss the hearing loss in the low bc that would lead to overcompensate, right? And, no, I have heard of hi freq loss with age but never the low.

I think it's the monitors position and the room. I just got them (~2 months). The room is quite square (15X13.5X8-L/W/H). Yesterday, I did some research and found out that my room has a build up around 111-113Hz (room mode). Here is what I know about that region: most instruments' fundamental are around there. That is also where we get the bulk of the low end aka not to messed with. Correct me if I am wrong. Info from the net is not to be trusted. I have the luck of the devil, ain't I? So I turn up a sine wave at 111Hz and walked around to find the null and peaks. I kinda chose the region in between where I still hear the sound but not as loud or low to sit aka between the null and peaks. I found a website that can calculate the location of the first reflection and put a duffle bag with some blanket in it to test. I moved my listening position ~ 18 inches closer to the speakers, to sit bet the null/peak than previously did. That's all I did, and, as you can see, quite bloody.

What I hear after all that: sounds seem to come from the speakers a bit clearer on the higher register 600Hz+ more directional. The bottom end didn't change that much, but what I noticed was the kick meter didn't bounce hard like I used to see with this type of music even though I pushed both the kick and the basses much harder than the last mix. The only thing I can think of is I am still sitting in the peak still bc clearly I under-compensate. Your thoughts?

I'd love to pm you, but if you don't mind, can I ask it here? That way it may be beneficial to those who don't know. Your good deed will grow more than just on me. Thanks.

[Lucas Alber]

Can you be more precise with your setup?

You have HS8s, right? How close are they to the wall behind?
How load are you monitoring? To minimize the effect of the room, you can try to monitor on low volumes.

The 100 Hz is more like the upper limit of the problem-area, the kick and subbass for example play around 20-50 Hz.

What exactly do you mean with "directional"? When the monitors are at the correct spot, they should disappear. That means the vocal should feel like it's coming from behind your desk, and the mix should sound wider than the positions of the monitors (which is hard to believe until it works).

Another possibility is that you have difficulties hearing the higher registers, and you are overcompensating here.

[SonicTramp]

Can you be more precise with your setup?

You have HS8s, right? (yes) How close are they to the wall behind?

*I have an attachment so you can see. Look for the ones on the left. All numbers are inches, tho units don't matter since the formula is in ratio.

How load are you monitoring?  To minimize the effect of the room, you can try to monitor on low volumes.

*(not too loud, hovering around 60 dBs, and more often than not, less). (sure, to minimize reflection)

The 100 Hz is more like the upper limit of the problem-area, the kick and subbass for example play around 20-50 Hz.

*(If I have problem with 100Hz, I should have the same with 50Hz since it is an octave of each other, and 50Hz being sub, so that could be it. Just a guess). Btw, using another formula (f= v/2L) I calculate the resonance of my room is @ 36Hz (D1 in piano) and the problem is at the 3rd harmonic 108Hz (~A2 piano) (previously 111Hz) for both W and L of my room. I am thinking about building a broadband bass trap but that would require a length of around 34" thick to trap as low as 100Hz. Forget about 50Hz.

What exactly do you mean with "directional"?  When the monitors are at the correct spot, they should disappear. That means the vocal should feel like it's coming from behind your desk, and the mix should sound wider than the positions of the monitors (which is hard to believe until it works).

*(Meaning I can hear the higher register coming from the speakers clearer, stereo image wise. Prior to that I could still hear the top end but smeared and not quite knowing where they come from exactly. Sometimes I have to hard pan bc of that)

Another possibility is that you have difficulties hearing the higher registers, and you are overcompensating here.

* it could be a possibility and, yeah, it'll be a disaster for me bc I can't fix that.

Thanks, man.