Today's the day

[SonicTramp]

Hi MikeJ,
No need to apologize. We all have our own lives to tend to. I get that. I am grateful that you even reach out to help, and the Good Lord knows I need it. I can almost feel the sympathy you have for the struggle we all must endure, and I appreciate it. It's o.k., my friend, I am just taking my share, and even though a little bloody but I am still alive . I am barely getting my feet wet, not painful enough to let out a scream...yet! Like everyone else, I guess I just have to suck it up and keep learning. And yes, it takes a bit to make me cry too, and no, I am never too smart to learn, and whatever ego I have for myself, for use in time of need, especially when I am utterly defeated in an argument with my gf, was shot to pieces ever since I enter in this profession. Mixing has a way of humbling one's self and destroying one's ego. Mine is down there safe and sound and peaceful 6 feet under.

No, I never thought you rained in my parade when you suggested the sub. That you wouldn't do. You're just too cool for that. The reason I kinda resisted the idea was 2 folds. First, yep, the pocket is getting emptier by the day and, second, I thought I didn't need it since my woofers are 8", the same as the sub I looked at that can pair with my set. After a little digging to make sure, I found that even though I have 8" woofer but it has to share the mid and the low (on hindsight: duh!). A sub would just take the low and reject the mid (depends on setting, cut-off freq or cross-over freq). So I guess by having the sub my set up would be 3 ways instead of 2 ways. That info plus your recommendation can only persuade me to do it. Though not right away. Even Rome wasn't build in one day, right? I need some time to train first. Parting company with the cash is never a happy occasion for me, and prying it out of my gf's hand needs special skill, time, and patience So yeah. I think I need proper tools to learn properly. Thanks for the recommendation.

Yeah, man, I am still playing around with the speakers and try to learn their sonic characteristics. I switch sitting and monitors' positions to find the best spot to listen. Each time I do I perform a mix and save it for later analysis. Of course each time I do it I do with your and others' critiques in mind and try to pinpoint where the problem is. My learning process is very unstructured, unlike a traditional school with guidelines and levels. I learn as I go, and most of the time I even don't know where the Hell I am going. So yeah, throw anything (not sharp) at me, man. If it helps my mix get better, I'll do it. There is no shame in learning. Not to me. Thanks. I'll upload another one later when I am finished. I'd appreciate your thoughts on it if possible. Thanks in advance.
Also I want to thank you for included the links. Wow! thanks a lot. I am always grateful learning new things, especially in music.

[mikej]

Well I've not heard the HS80s and you are of course right to say they will be much bassier with the larger drivers. The sub thing is just something I had in mind that I felt helped my mixes so I am likely projecting a bit there.

The really difficult thing I found is figuring out the mix balance and how it actually seems to translate and making the right corrections. I feel it's something I'm continually chipping away at mixing wise.

As I mentioned the last mix sounded a bit bass light to me - you might just see it on an analyser too. It would be useful if others could give your mixes a listen and comment and share their opinions on the frequency balance too I think.

Anyway good luck!

Cheers!

[SonicTramp]

Hi Mikej. Speaking for myself and by myself (I think), I think mixing is like sculpting. One just needs to be patient and keeps chipping it away. In the mean time, one should always try to enhance one's skills needed for the job, in our case and most important, listening skill. As far as mixing decisions is concerned, I think as long as we get the masking problems settled (frequency balancing), the volume balance is more of a personal choice. Some songs would need the kick to be louder, leading, some would leave the space for the bass instead, for example. The problem, the biggest for me, is to know what frequency is in excess while listening (to everything) and what instruments to cut and how much. That is the skill I need to develop, and the only way to get it is to practice. There's no way around it. I have tried many ways to avoid the task but failed every single time. All of us just have to learn how to mix in context. And a nice set of speakers will help. I have heard more things I did to the mix in a month than in the last two years of trying with headphones.

Btw, I have a way of practice that seem to work for me. I want to share it here if anyone wants to try.

This works on any move on processing (EQ/comp). For example, if I think I should cut a bit at 2.5k on the guitar to help the vocal cut thru I would do so, but then I would put my mouse on the bypass button and click furiously until I can't tell whether the plug is engaged or not, while keeping my eyes shut. Then I would carefully listen to the changes (the guitar should sound a bit duller and the vocal should shine a bit more when the EQ is engaged and vice versa when not) and guessed whether the plug in is in bypass or engaged when I clicked in and out. All the while keeping my eyes shut. Rinse and repeat until I am sure I can hear the difference and guess whether it's engaged or not correctly. Sometimes I even hear the top end of either the snare or the kick cuts thru at the same time. That's them reacting to my EQ move on the guitar. And you know what, it's wonderful to hear the reaction, pleasant or not. It's not the point. And since then, the hunt begins. I don't know how long it would take, but I wish there comes a day when I can hear the reactions without so much effort and can hear more than just a couple instruments at a time. I am taking my time, and I am listening .

Anyway, I worked on the song more and try to enhance it one way or another, not so much to make it better but rather to make it less ugly . I thought the snare was a little too aggressive and compete with the voice, a little shave on the hi-mid seemed to tame it down. Most of time spent on the bass. Heavy cuts on the hi-mid, I thought the bass was too mid-rangy, more cuts on same range on every bass track. The cut gave the kick a bit more presence and a little more meat. Re-balanced all the guitars, rough time for me. Over all, I think the mix is fuller, a bit louder, and wider than the last. But who knows what other gremlins lurk underneath. I'll find out, won't I? Thanks for the listen.

And yeah, people, have a heart and tell me how it sounds in your system. I have been eating criticisms for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. In the beginning it gave me diarrhea, but after a while (years) it just slid right off (desensitized), in other words, "sticks and stones may break my bones..." so, no, I don't mind so long as it is done with good intention. We're all here to learn, right? Thanks. Beside, it's fun to participate in a discussion that involves what we love to do. Who knows what a human mind can conjure up? I am sure there are some clever tricks out there that some of us can learn.

[Monk]

You'll have to be prepared to give it some time and also really work at learning your new monitors....

Your post is irresponsible but I'm sure it's unintentionally so.

There will be 5 things you don't know during a mixing session from your laborious trial and error festivities which arguably make your advice extremely counter productive:

1 Is it the monitors?
2 Is it the room?
3 Is it the DAW
4 Is it Noise Induced Hearing Loss?
5 Is it a combination of all of the above factors in varying amounts?

Sure, you can run around like a chimp, slapping your mix on different playback devices. But how will you know what they are telling you if none of them are a controlled environment with decent frequency responses and are unfit for critical listening purposes?

Then you run back to your challenging space, trying to remember what mix issues you think were present from those other fake, highly coloured environments with horrendous RT60's.  Your space will be messy too, but it will be a different mess, just to help with the confusion and clouds of uncertainty.  Welcome to the game of fools!

If you think “referencing” will compensate for all these things (and more besides, I'm simply scratching the surface), then are you deluded or gullible?

Learn your speakers? The truth of the matter, to those in the know, is that you won't learn anything!  You will however, find that fact out sooner or later, most likely it will be much later.  By then you will have invested so much time and energy you won't be able to give up!  You don't have to believe me, because you will be here years later going around in circles for the exact same reasons I've listed above, wasting valuable life chasing your tail and going nowhere fast. But hey, at least it makes good click bait but it's not for your benefit unless you are being paid to do what you are doing?

Using headphones or buds contributes to Noise Induced Hearing Loss. They quickly cause fatigue, fatigue encourages louder levels over the mix session/auditioning/entertainment period. Louder levels add to fatigue.....which begets even louder levels. Hello hearing damage! You cannot judge loudness in a pair of headphones or buds because loudness is a perception.  You should note too that software cannot compensate for any of this. Nor can it fix the design issues created from slapping a transducer against the pinna! There are [deluded] folk who think otherwise and one has been posting in this forum since day 1. Good luck to them, I say.  And let's not forget the brain loves to hear music louder because it's more exciting and engaging.......another reason for them being a hazard and why they are creating a pandemic of Health issues today which nobody wants to discuss.  Oh, but what about noise cancellation buds/phones? No more than a rouse..... the Industry makes big money from you and will try anything to make things appear safer even when they aren't.  Irrespective of gimmicks, buds for example, create colossal SPL's at very low playback levels due to physics and anatomy.  One of your moderator mates (he's operating in stealth mode for some reason), claims to have been using them for years......and he can't assess frequency response to save his life, perhaps for this reason.

The answer? Give your production to someone who has the necessary pre-requisites for a critical listening environment, with decent speakers chosen specifically to work in that room. GRK or no GRK, it's IMPOSSIBLE to absorb bass.  Bass must be “managed” and that takes know-how that most musicians have neither the time nor the energy to learn, even if they might have the budget!  Headphones don't do bass, nor do buds sufficiently accurately for mixing purposes. Citizens can think otherwise, that's fine.

So, what are the “Opportunity Costs”?

This is one simple post that will be lost in the noise of many thousands herein. And yet it's perhaps the most important.....