Actions - Devil's Words (3.0)

[Roy]

It sounds like you need to read Slipperman's Distorted Guitars From Hell

https://archive.org/stream/SlippermansRe...9_djvu.txt

I say this somewhat in jest.

[mikej]

Yes, having looked at the first paragraph or so, it would seem that you are indeed correct - I do need to read that. .

Thanks for passing that on.

Cheers!

[Roy]

Yes, having looked at the first paragraph or so, it would seem that you are indeed correct - I do need to read that. .

Thanks for passing that on.

Cheers!

Cool. Please précis that for me. I've never finished it. I remember live reading it. Same with the Mixerman stuff. I'm so old.

[mikej]

Well, so far it is mainly explaining the reasons behind my current suffering, I guess. Yes I too recall reading some of that Mixerman etc, stuff on a certain forum or other too in the distant past.

Reminds me a bit of the KLF's esteemed tome 'The Manual' How to have a number one hit the easy way. It's a little dated now but an interesting and informative read all the same . I suspect you might find the text of that online too. I do have a copy of the actual book around here somewhere....

Cheers!

[Roy]

I had the Mixerman book. Oh and 1st edition "Recording the Beatles" I've given away too much good stuff over the years

[mikej]

That reminds me to mention that I do have one of the Mike Senior books too .

[mikej]

Mix 2.2. added. A few tweaks and I also re-did the guitar and vocal automation. (I maybe should have taken a longer break to evaluate this before posting, but there it is anyway..).

Cheers!

[Roy]

I listened to 2.2. I didn't A/B it just took it on it's own on a new day. I really like the drums/bass. There might be some low end/sub shenanigans that I can't really hear on the earbuds. I think it might be the kick. That's more just my gut talking. I might just need breakfast.

The main guitars work. I kinda want a pinch of mids/high mids. Like a dB @ 3k or something. But I don't know if it's necessary but the drums have so much attack and definition that the guitars could compete a bit more. Maybe they can't with the distortion that's on there and all that. Or maybe they chouldn't
The verse/melodic guitars feel bit quiet. I'm on the fence about this.

The vocals and maybe just the lead vocal seems to pop out at times. Maybe it's over enthusiastic automation.

I hate how this song ends. It's not your fault. The recording ends too abruptly.

I dunno. Maybe I can give it another listen after coffee/breakfast. I know it's all fairly vague. Overall it sounds good. It could use some minor adjustments, if that. I'd say move on and come back to it at another time when your head is clear of it.

ps. Sorry for all of the doubt entendre. They were unintentional. (see? now people will go back and reread trying to find them. I'm a genius)

[mikej]

Thanks for checking back.

I listened to 2.2. I didn't A/B it just took it on it's own on a new day. I really like the drums/bass. There might be some low end/sub shenanigans that I can't really hear on the earbuds. I think it might be the kick. That's more just my gut talking. I might just need breakfast.

I need breakfast too. 

It is kind of getting past lunchtime here though now.

I do seem to be a bit happier with mixing drums lately. Certainly feels better, since really figuring out and understanding that drum bus compression thing anyway.

(Is it me, or are the drums a bit on the busy side in this?)

Yeah, bass is much better since you hinted it could be a bit more present.

I added some extra sub weight to the kick (sub synth thingy)... In hindsight I should really have checked it on my sub too, but I didn't quite make the stretch over to it's 'on' switch.

Seemed ok on my bassier earbuds, but it did cross my mind that it might be too much.  I'll check it properly later.

The main guitars work. I kinda want a pinch of mids/high mids. Like a dB @ 3k or something. But I don't know if it's necessary but the drums have so much attack and definition that the guitars could compete a bit more. Maybe they can't with the distortion that's on there and all that. Or maybe they chouldn't

Me too, but I felt the 3k clashed with the vocal too much.  I might try an extra db though.

The verse/melodic guitars feel bit quiet. I'm on the fence about this.

Same.  To be honest I kind of forgot about them.  When I realised, I wasn't sure if they actually needed to be louder, so I left them as is.  I dunno, maybe they can be bumped up a bit.

The vocals and maybe just the lead vocal seems to pop out at times. Maybe it's over enthusiastic automation.

Maybe.  I am currently practicing doing ssl style relative trim automation with my old faderport.  I recently discovered it is possible to do this in the Reaper DAW, thanks to Mike's tea-break podcast. 

Basically you can do an automation pass, then do subsequent passes relative to the previous one.  As opposed to just overwriting the automation which is the more usual set up, if that makes sense?

It's something I've really wanted to try for years, after watching some YouTube of Sam Thomas mixing India Arie and Danity Kane on an SSL 4000.  I figured out he was doing multiple passes and really honing the volume automation closer to perfection on each pass. 

I feel this is the real skill and secret of how CLA builds everything in his mixes too, with the guitar 'pushes' etc?? 

To be fair the vocals in this really are all over the shop dynamics wise, and require more than just compression to fix I think.  I probably just need to spend a bit more time knocking the vocals in to shape with the automation.  

I thought I'd done a reasonable job with the main guitar automation though.  Certainly I can see it making a huge difference to my mixes, with practice, going forward. 

I hate how this song ends. It's not your fault. The recording ends too abruptly.

Indeed.  It bothers me too, but I couldn't think of anything else that would work, so far.  Which also bothered me...

I dunno. Maybe I can give it another listen after coffee/breakfast. I know it's all fairly vague. Overall it sounds good. It could use some minor adjustments, if that. I'd say move on and come back to it at another time when your head is clear of it.

Yeah... I can't seem to feel that I've got this one close to working really for some reason.  I think it's perhaps down to the vocal register and delivery really.  I get the idea of the juxtaposition of the vocal style with the heavy guitars, but it's not exactly Paramore, and I can't figure out how to make it really work as it is I suppose. 

The thing is it's not terrible, and it's not a bad idea in itself either, if that makes sense.  

It also seems to really badly screw with my sense of perception regarding tonality too.  Especially (relatively) comparing Mike's version with the 'video' mix.  The guitars seem quite dull after Mike's mix, but then Mike's guitars seem too bright after getting used to the video mix.... 

I guess I generally like to at least feel I tried to do the best I can (with my current skill level) for a mix at a given time before moving on.  This one does seems to be getting me down a bit more than usual for some reason.

Comparing with other refs I think maybe I could high pass everything a little more, kind of thin everything out a touch maybe, and make it a little brighter overall perhaps.  Dunno.

ps. Sorry for all of the doubt entendre. They were unintentional. (see? now people will go back and reread trying to find them. I'm a genius)

I have no idea what a doubt entendre is.  (I do doubt this mix though!).



Cheers!

(Oh, I enjoyed the slipperman thing.  Not sure it really helped me to eq guitars but some good insight and I did need the laugh!)

[Roy]

The drums are busy on this one. I wonder if there's some drum and bass influence in the writing.
The subs might be fine. I can't really tell. It was just a thought.

I'm terrible with automation. I think because I never are up on it. There as a period where I was really trying to get into it but it fell by the wayside. It's tricky on a mouse. I think it's more of a habit I need to get into. I think it's a bit of an old school thing because guys who started on ProTools get used to the stopping and writing moves and looking at the waveforms and all that. Where as back in the day you had to go by feel and your ears and there as a bit of risk involved that I think people are shy of.

There's no right or wrong mix and anything I pointed out in general is fine. I do think the vocal popping out in the mix some time is 'an issue'. That feels off. Part of it might be some of the tone quality of the vocal. The rest is open to interpretation. It's a fine mix. Don't sweat it. But also sweat it because you want to be happy with it.