Actions - Devil's Words (3.0)

[mikej]

I think that the old school ssl-style hands on 'going by feel' as you say is the thing. Getting hands on with multiple passes, etc, really crafting the mix dynamics of each part, and getting it all really working together. The 'moves'.

For me that is the real genius behind, say, CLA's mixes - aside from all the compressors and reverbs that everyone loves to debate endlessly. I feel they miss the point somewhat. It really is all about his sense of balance and skill in crafting and building in the dynamics I think.

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The vocals shouldn't pop out my mix as such. My aim with the automation was to fix all that...

Maybe I miss some spots, or I need more practice at it, now that I find I can actually use the faderport in the manner I intended when I bought the thing. Previously I came to think that it was only pro tools HD that offered the multiple pass style of automation.

Yeah I do tend to sweat it. Although I have mostly given up questioning the sanity of why I decided to embark on this mixing endeavor. I do try and give each mix my best shot though, despite the results being somewhat variable...

I do really appreciate your help and support in my efforts. To that end I see you have given this mix a go too. I will be sure to check it out a bit later on today. I feel need a little break first. (I am hoping your mix holds some answers for me though!)

Cheers!

[mikej]

Ok, having checked out Roy's mix of this (thanks so much for that) - some of my thoughts are:

- My sense of tonal perception was likely completely shot after my first mix, attempting to match the brightness of the guitars in Mike's mix, etc. For my taste I think that level of brightness is perhaps the wrong direction. I've listened to a few Blink 182 and Sum41 type tracks. Also checked out some early 2000's kind of emo type stuff too after reading the Slippperman thing. I that feel slightly darker guitars and less edgy mids is ok for this track, and it can still fit in with that kind of company. Not sure if I will feel the same after a decent break, but those are my thoughts for now.

- The guitars and vocals in mix 2.2 don't really match and hang with the drums tonally. The drums are probably just a little too thick and heavy, and a little too up in the mix. The guitars can come up a bit and they need to be rock steady and up front in the balance throughout the mix. The drums just need to punch through them a bit. The vocals also need to float on top of everything throughout the mix too.

- a bit heavier compression, parallel compression, and a bit of distortion might be things to explore to help the vocal's tonally. I have been a bit too light on the compression with this so far really.

- I also need to get everything sitting right and working well in the mid range, with just a little overall weight in the lows and highs.

I'll likely start over with a v3.0 and see how it goes. Going to try using normal mouse automation to fix all the vocal sibilance and general level issues, then use fader automation to build the mix after that.

We shall see I suppose. I think I've got some sort of an idea of where I need to be with this stuff now, I hope.

Yeah. thanks again for your help Roy,

Cheers!

[Roy]

I think we tend to think of guitars as being brighter than they are/should be. To be fair, with electric guitars all bets are off the table and they can sound like anything. But with all that distortion our perception tricks us. What a poor sentence. Usually we go brighter to try to get some articulation, which isn't where it's at, or to find a place for the guitars after drums and bass, or to create excitement.

I haven't listened again but I liked the drums in 2.2. Like you said though they might be a little busy at times so some riding/automation might be in order. Especially on the toms. I wound up using a floor tom sample on some hits and kept them back a bit in the verse.

I'll always agree with more compression because I love compression. So yeah I think the vocal could have more. I know I used a buttload so they can take it.

I'm glad to be of some help. I didn't think the mix I did was very good and wasn't intended to necessarily illustrate anything. Except maybe the end. I did wan't to feel like this song ended is a some what satisfactory way. Regardless, if it was helpful then great.

[mikej]

Ooh, I might have forgotten to mention the ending in your mix. I did notice. Yeah your mix was certainly helpful. It gave me some idea of direction and also some inspiration too of how I might attempt to fix some of the issues I had with my mix.

I've uploaded a mix 3.0. I removed all the plugins and automation and basically started over. I hope everything kind of gels a bit better in this one, if nothing else.

Cheers!