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Amy Helm & Handsome Strangers [Pro Mixer]
#11
(23-02-2021, 04:40 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: * This post is for the first version. Not the second one.
@0:27, the vocal ducked down noticeably. From 1:27- forward, the e-guitar move is too obvious. The kick is buried when the vocal gets louder. Solo the mandolin tracks and you'll hear the bleed, the mud of the snare, and the mud of the vocal in it. Perhaps it is the source of your rather dark rhythm section. You can say that's bc of "live" performance, but I can say the same to everything. It doesn't matter how it comes to us, we, as mixers, must do whatever in our power to overcome the difficulty and make everything as listenable as we can. If we have to go to the extreme to get it, then let it be, imo. If you HP the bass all the way to 20kHz Smile (talk about extremity) and I still hear it and the mix is still banging then by all means HP it all the way there, right? I listen to the mix as a whole, if nothing jumps out at me then it is a good mix. The beauty is: no one notices what we did to the instruments. If I have to aim, that would be my target. To be invisible.

I have to admit that I do listen to others' mixes with critical ears. I am more of a technician, not an artist, not yet, at this level. I worry about the mud, the sub, the compressors, intelligibility, punch, etc. technical stuffs. So I pay more attention there. If I run into a great mix, I'd listen to it more to learn. I'd try to guess all the moves and mimic it best I can. I'd love it if someone tells me how sucky my mix is (truthfully, not trying to rain on my parade) and can actually show me how to correct it and make it better. A few in here already did that, and my mix actually got better. Now looking back on those early mixes I feel grateful to the folks that helped me out by criticizing my mixes.
If you were my client, I would do the changes easily, but again, this is interpretation, is obvious that the guitar move comes in, because he played like that.
We as engineers make the hole thing playing together, we dont fix musicians, we can try to fix small things here and there, but all we try is to make song moves.
Again, the details you talk about don't bother me AT ALL, because the musicians played like that, it was INTENTIONAL!

I can agree, we as engineers need to make everything good to listen to, but it really matter how it comes to us, you by "normalizing" all of guitars riffs and licks, you will killing that "blues vibe" of the song, that somethings comes in, sometimes come out.

It's hard to say that a disagree with you with almost everything, but we're here trying to understand different tastes of music, aren't we?

You're paying attention to the really small details that you know that are there because you probably opened de multitracks and saw whats happening...
Things didn't work for me that way! The biggest prove to me that I'm correct at least in this point of view, is the original session on youtube, a huge responsibility for the mixing engineer as it is an incredible brand as Telefunken with this details you've mentioned are not acceptable, happening.

Is my mix the perfect one? No, far far way from that,
I like the original mix? Not too much! Its working? Yeah, for sure.
You can contact me for professional jobs, editing, mixing & mastering, mixing classes!
Would be a pleasure to work with you!
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#12
I heard someone says, "one man's warmth is another's mud." That's the life we lead here, man. It's all just opinions. It's our job to sort it out best we can. But if a bunch of people say the same thing, perhaps we should take a step back and reconsider.

Telenfunken is NOT an authority in mixing. They make damn good microphones, but that's about it. And even that is up to debate. No company is, imo. Just bc they make awesome mics does not mean their recording techniques is just as good. The 2 have no co-relation. If they are that good, how come we still have bleed (almost everywhere), we still have phase problem (check the OH and you'll see)? I have heard recording that wasn't made by Telenfunken but with a lot less bleed. No, not to me. Their recording is not superior than everybody else's. There are experts, sure, but not authority, not in this business. But that's just my opinion.
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#13
(23-02-2021, 05:39 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: I heard someone says, "one man's warmth is another's mud." That's the life we lead here, man. It's all just opinions. It's our job to sort it out best we can. But if a bunch of people say the same thing, perhaps we should take a step back and reconsider.

Telenfunken is NOT an authority in mixing. They make damn good microphones, but that's about it. And even that is up to debate. No company is, imo. Just bc they make awesome mics does not mean their recording techniques is just as good. The 2 have no co-relation. If they are that good, how come we still have bleed (almost everywhere), we still have phase problem (check the OH and you'll see)? I have heard recording that wasn't made by Telenfunken but with a lot less bleed. No, not to me. Their recording is not superior than everybody else's. There are experts, sure, but not authority, not in this business. But that's just my opinion.
Yeah, It's just opinions, but we always learn something by doing that, I'm sure I learned some and you too.

Telefunken isn't authority in mixing, okay, I can agree, but it needs to sound good because the quality of the microphones will be directly linked to it, or would you buy a microphone based on the bad sound of the mix... thinking that they are not the "authority in mixing"? They need to be consistent, and for sure a good mixing engineer mixed this song.
Things are different but are directly linked, you need to think it in a merchandising way of selling products too! (How far are we going? Hahaha)
"If they are that good, how come we still have bleed (almost everywhere), we still have phase problem (check the OH and you'll see)? "
Another big mistake I see here, did you see the amount of bleed that have on the vocal mic? Its ridiculous low, and again, you're thinking too much in a "soloed" ocasion.
If you're mic'ing a band live, it's normal to have bleed everywhere, we can try to minimze, but thats what makes it sound live, because it was recorded all together, live, doesn't makes sense? You have do deal with that, wheter you like or not. One day you will get a client that recorded all live and thinking, oh, this guitar cab has drum bleed in it... Would be a dream if it would be recorded separate in a studio... But makes no sense, It will be studio recording then, do you get my point?
You can contact me for professional jobs, editing, mixing & mastering, mixing classes!
Would be a pleasure to work with you!
[email protected]
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#14
Here is what you can do to put it to rest: take your best mix of this song and compare it with mine and see. Then you take your mix and compare with the original one. There. You should be able to tell the difference. It's what coming out of the speakers, man. That's where you show your skill. Your mix has to be able to translate to majority, not everyone has the same system as yours. What you think, really, doesn't matter that much. I can't even tell you how many times I thought my mixes were awesome until someone told me they were not. Let the mix defends itself. Once we put it here, it's out of our hands now.

You made a lot of assumptions that are not true. For example, mixing in solo. Listening in solo, yeah. But never mix in solo. Have you not even listened to my mix? You must think I know nothing. You also think we (not you) always do extreme EQ/compressors/whatever settings. We don't do that actually. You also think that we use a lot of plug ins. I, for one, do not. You see, that type of assumptions make a conversation less interesting, kinda condescending in a way, as if we know nothing better.

There are rules in a debate that we must follow. Ad hominem is a no no. Jumping on the wagon is another no no. And neither is appeal to authority. These are fallacies. The moment they show their presence is the moment the debate is lost.
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#15
(23-02-2021, 07:03 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: Here is what you can do to put it to rest: take your best mix of this song and compare it with mine and see. Then you take your mix and compare with the original one. There. You should be able to tell the difference. It's what coming out of the speakers, man. That's where you show your skill. Your mix has to be able to translate to majority, not everyone has the same system as yours. What you think, really, doesn't matter that much. I can't even tell you how many times I thought my mixes were awesome until someone told me they were not. Let the mix defends itself. Once we put it here, it's out of our hands now.

You made a lot of assumptions that are not true. For example, mixing in solo. Listening in solo, yeah. But never mix in solo. Have you not even listened to my mix? You must think I know nothing. You also think we (not you) always do extreme EQ/compressors/whatever settings. We don't do that actually. You also think that we use a lot of plug ins. I, for one, do not. You see, that type of assumptions make a conversation less interesting, kinda condescending in a way, as if we know nothing better.

There are rules in a debate that we must follow. Ad hominem is a no no. Jumping on the wagon is another no no. And neither is appeal to authority. These are fallacies. The moment they show their presence is the moment the debate is lost.
I'm not starting at mixing, I know the process of mixing, referecing, to know my speakers, headphones, my room...

I heard your mixes and I see some of the same problems in all your mixes, and they are the same I see when people are starting mixing and the same I had in the past, bad low end or not at all, weak stereofield, wrong decisions I tought was right, loud vocals, loud fx, your mix sounds different from the raw tracks, and this is the point of all my theory of "Extreme processing", or "Eqing in solo", did you get my point?

I compare all the time, I need to be competitive with my mixes.

Since you say you're starting, is probably the main reason I'm trying to convince you that something is not right, if you disagree and think I'm pain in the as*, its okay, I don't do it anymore.
You can contact me for professional jobs, editing, mixing & mastering, mixing classes!
Would be a pleasure to work with you!
[email protected]
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#16
You could have trashed my mix way earlier, bro. So doing it now is a kind of slander on your part, I'd think. But that's too typical, isn't it? Why else people say, "when the debate is lost, slander is the choice of tool of the loser." (probably Socrates'). Here is the same medicine you seem to have been giving out to us commenters: point it out for me what's wrong in my mix. Let's put this to the test. Give it to me as you demanded to you. I have time, man. You are not getting away with it Smile.
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#17
I didn't understand 100% what you've said because I'm not English native, but here it is;

You didn't remember, I've already "trashed" your mix before, bro, it's the same problems I've heard before.

You asked if I listened to your mix, and I've said yes, you're trying to prove that my mix is bad, you even said that Telefunken isn't authority for mixing, you elevate yourself too much in that part that I'm almost speechless, Telefunken isn't autorithy, the multitracks were recorded by them (excelent to be honest), but the mix they provide isn't good enough to use as parameter, yeah?

You didn't agree with me and I didn't with you, that's enough, If my mix is bad or your is bad, who cares?

I wouldn't want to have to argue with you because my vocabulary here is limited and I like to talk about music, not about how "Loser" I am to not agree with you. Smile
You can contact me for professional jobs, editing, mixing & mastering, mixing classes!
Would be a pleasure to work with you!
[email protected]
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#18
No, man. You labeled yourself "pro" while I did not. That's self elevation if there ever was one. I don't care if you like my mix or not. That's not why I am here. I have a girlfriend. She showers me enough with her compliments. Just don't think of us, or me, like we're idiots, like we don't know any better. Some of us do. I, for one, know something about mixing. Here is my advice: when listen to mixes, judge how skillful the guy behind it accordingly. They don't get to this level by knowing nothing, you know. And after listening to my mix you still think that I am an absolute beginner. See man, I would say that's ad hominem (Latin, means personal attack) or, at the very least, a low blow. You need, first, a good attitude (try not to wave your "dong" around, especially not here) and second, listening skill. But work on the attitude first though.
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#19
(23-02-2021, 09:26 PM)SonicTramp Wrote: No, man. You labeled yourself "pro" while I did not. That's self elevation if there ever was one. I don't care if you like my mix or not. That's not why I am here. I have a girlfriend. She showers me enough with her compliments. Just don't think of us, or me, like we're idiots, like we don't know any better. Some of us do. I, for one, know something about mixing. Here is my advice: when listen to mixes, judge how skillful the guy behind it accordingly. They don't get to this level by knowing nothing, you know. And after listening to my mix you still think that I am an absolute beginner. See man, I would say that's ad hominem (Latin, means personal attack) or, at the very least, a low blow. You need, first, a good attitude (try not to wave your "dong" around, especially not here) and second, listening skill. But work on the attitude first though.
You've said, in your post, that was your first mix.

Professional : Engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
You can contact me for professional jobs, editing, mixing & mastering, mixing classes!
Would be a pleasure to work with you!
[email protected]
Reply