"All Souls Moon" Unplugged

[ALX]

Hello everyone. I decided to do a mix of "All Souls Moon" focusing on the midrange acoustic instruments. Really wanted to work on the clarity of the instruments and placing them in a really nice ambiance. Let me know what you think.

[Voelund]

Well spotted ! Its a beautiful version without the drums n bas.

That way you avoid the trouble balancin the vocals n bas in solo
Win win. I think a first time listener would gladly accept this version.
Good call.

[Voelund]

By the way your eq sounds great in headphone and lvls are fine.

[sivert_h]

Very nice mix! Good idea about taking the drums away, the song sounds good acoustic.
Very nicely EQ-ed, all sounds smooth and well. Used any compression at all?

There are just some minor things I would have done differently, firstly give the main vocal more bass, more sense of being close to the ear, be a little more forward in the mix. I don't think much EQ is needed to accomplish this. Secondly the mix feels a little unbalanced, leaning towards the right side. This is mainly because of the Rhodes, it holds a lot of low end information which to me makes it feel like the mix is "lobsided". I'm also wondering if the background vocals also are panned a little right? If you listen to the female backings at around 2:20, the vocal in the right monitor seems to be louder to me. It might be louder, or it might be because of some notes appear louder, and then draging the attention that way, a gentle compressor would help that.

These are just the things that came to mind when listening. All in all a very good mix!

[ALX]

Thank for the input. I did not use any compression at all. I listen to a lot of audiophile tracks as references which do not use compression. They use mic placement and very slight corrective eq. I use to use a lot of compression to try to tame unruly tracks and am trying to learn how to eq correctly to maintain as much of the natural dynamics as possible. One of the legendary mastering engineers say that compressors are for kids and that proper eq can fix most mixes. I am trying to learn to reach for a compressor only as a last resort. I had a limiter on the master and decide to take it off because it was adding graininess to the sound. The Rhodes sound weighty in my room also. When I roll up just one Hz on the high pass or pull any low mid frequency out it starts to sound thin and grainy. The next option was to use an impulse of a cabinet to make it sound like it was mic'd in a natural space. I was starting to get lazy, my ears were tired, and I just did not have the will to go through my library of cabinet impulse responses to make it sound as if it were coming off a speaker that matched the room the acoustic instruments were recorded in. Same with the backing vocals, I should have done some volume automation. I focused all my attention on the EQing and the ambience.

Sivert_h has those amazing ear. I can only hear the thing you hear on the Headphone. I have to start trusting the SHR940's. Everytime you point out something, I hear it right away on them. I really appreciate all the critiques. It helps us all get better. Thanks again.

I have attached an edited version with the EQ HP slope on the Rhodes a little steeper (still think a cabinet impulse would be better) and volume automation on the BV at 2:00. Left the lead alone because it is just a little more forward than most audiophile vocals. Check out John Hammond's "Rough and Tough" or Livingston Taylor's "Ink" on HDTracks website.

[ALX]

Just a quick note. I switched my audio interface to PCM mode for the analog outs and every little dynamic change became very apparent. The Backing Vcls sounded like the dynamics were all over the place on every single word. This may help anyone who is having problems hearing micro dynamics and has a PCM option on their audio interface.

[sivert_h]

I listen to a lot of audiophile tracks as references which do not use compression. They use mic placement and very slight corrective eq. I use to use a lot of compression to try to tame unruly tracks and am trying to learn how to eq correctly to maintain as much of the natural dynamics as possible. One of the legendary mastering engineers say that compressors are for kids and that proper eq can fix most mixes. I am trying to learn to reach for a compressor only as a last resort. I had a limiter on the master and decide to take it off because it was adding graininess to the sound. The Rhodes sound weighty in my room also.

Ok, I'm going to sound a bit harsh here, and I apologise in advance. Saying that using a compressor are for kids sounds like the utter most f***ing bullshit I've heard. I wouldn't trust that mastering engineer as far as I could throw him. Compressor and EQ are the two most basic tools in an audio engineers arsenal, and refusing to use one because it's "for kids" just sounds redicilous. Do you know of any carpenters who don't use a hammer? Guess what, you can use a compressor dynamically. There are lots of uses for a compressor, most of which a EQ cannot replicate. Now I'm a amateur in the field of mixing, but I wish to become a professional. And in doing so, I will not refuse to use the tools at my disposal because of one guys opinion, because that will eventually make me a bad engineer!

Where would Chris Lord-Alge, one of the most famous mixing engineers in the world, be without his compressors? He's practically known for his use of compressors.

I don't know how long you've been doing this ALX, but I'm guessing you're kind of in the same place as me. My tip for you is learn how to use all the tools before you judge. If you then later decide "I'm not going to use compressors", that's fine, then at least it was your own decision.

[Voelund]

Well said. Compression is a great tool.
One shouldnt believe anything one hear. Ive heard

[sivert_h]

Ive heard

HAH!

[ALX]

Don't get me wrong. Compression is a great tool. I don't think the mastering engineer meant it literally. I think he was trying to make the point that if you eq properly, you don't have to use as much compression. I am mixing "Much to Much" right now and because of all the track bleed, I am relying mostly on very light compression to get the tracks to work together. EQ alone is not giving me the sound I am looking for. I did not mean to offend anyone. I was referring to myself and the things i am trying to learn to find my sound, my mixing formula.

Sivert_h, I was exactly where you are about 20 yeas ago. I was fortunate enough to go to a school that had a Neve, an API and a SSL room. In the corner of the SSL room was an old 24 track machine with a 2 or 3 inch speaker on the front of it. One of my instructors made me run my mix though it to get evaluated. My mix did not sound so good. He said that everything sounds good on the Big Mains. It needed to sound good on the small speaker. That really was an eye opening experience. Had no money after I finished school so I mixed on 4inch speakers in a corner and got very good results for many years. Compressed everything because it was easy and made everything jump out of the speakers. HP, cut here, boost there and compress to make it jump out of the speakers. After some time I started to notice that my mixes sound small on big systems. Sound stage did not extend beyond the speakers left to right and did not extend into the sound stage behind the speakers. I brought a home 5 years with a sound proof media room and made it into a dedicated mixing room. Took me 3 year just to get the room flat enough to trust what I was hearing and still do not have it perfect. That is why I thanked you for you critique of the Jazz Trio.

To the point. My monitor are 67.5 inches apart which is the standard for professional room tuners. Angled and distance set using a laser. Imaging and Phantom center are amazingly pinpoint. A lot of what I hear sounds really small in my room, including CLA's mix of My Chemical Romance's "Black Parade". The tonal balance is killer but the mix sounds small in my room. On the intro where it get really busy, I can hear the compressor suck the life out of the mix. Then, some recording sound like the room disappears and the musician are holographs. Like Loreena Mckinnett mixed at Real World Studios and mastered by Bob Ludwig or Lyle Lovett's "Church" mixed by Massenburg. EQ properly first to clean everything up and them let your compressor take it to the next level. Compressors pre eq cleaning, tend to make mixes sound small. Not just HP filtering and cuts, but the ghost data (frequency spikes) that make mixes sound fuzzy and unsharp when mixing in the box (ITB). Great if you want max RMS in your face mixes for itunes. Not so great when you are listening on a high end audiophile system. I am trying to learn how to make my mixes sound good on anything. From the alarm clock speaker on your night stand to a set of B&W 800D's powered by 1000 watt monoblocks. My goal is to hear a mastering engineer say that everything he tried made my mixes sound worst, so he transferred them untouched because they were that good.