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Crownoise - A sailor once more
#1
Hi all Smile I have heard some good mixes of this one already. I somehow felt this was hard even though everything sounded good and it was such a lovely song so maybe thats why. Here is mine:


.mp3    A Sailor once More.mp3 --  (Download: 7.94 MB)


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#2
Hi!

Nice!

I like the feel you've got on this one. I think this is a tough mix precisely because everything sounds so good, it's quite the puzzle to get everything to sit exactly right.

Just a couple of things I noted-

The esses on the vocal are a bit strong anyway as recorded. I think they could be reduced just a little bit more in your mix? The delay on the vocal is making the problem a little worse I think, as the esses are being repeated too.

On the frequency analyser there is a very slight dip between around 1 and 5k. I think a little db or so of a boost there on the mixbus with a wide eq might get the mix to really shine, or alternatively maybe you could just eq the vocal a db there to get it really popping out a bit more once the esses are a little less, not sure, maybe something to try anyway.

Cheers!
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#3
Hey Mike thankyou for analyzing. I was doing a dip at 5k in many individual tracks, also made a bit scoop of 1 k on masterbuss. I did some unordinary things for this mix also, i have new headphones and i mix in logic for once (i use to mix on my PC in Logic) i also did not use any soundcard for convenience sake (i love laying down with only laptop and headphones). I think this altered the sound in a more unpredictable manner then i am use to. Some how i feel when running the final bounce in realtime through my soundcard that it adds some mid around that area, but i think it is more around 2k up to 6k, also i noticed when listening to mixes on this site thru the soundcard that it gives some of this coloration to the monitoring vs without it, so this might have been a reason why i have some overrepresentet frequencies around this area. Regarding the esses i was struggling with these, the de-esser in logic is so bad, way to hard when it hits the esses even if you back it of, so it was hard to get it right, i was thinking of automating but i am often lazy and didn't even though logic is best for this application in my opinion. I strongly recommend for everyone to try to latch or touch parameters in realtime (even better i think if you use some sort of knob and just asign it to the right parameter), like eq db +/- , it speeds up alot of time i believe. How would you judge my bass-info in this mix Mike, how do you perceive it, i brought a lot some back by distorting the masterbuss. Is it punchy enough, hard to judge since i don't know my new headphones so good to get your insights on this, thanks!
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#4
So first off its a good mix and I agree with mike that it has a great feel! I downloaded the mp3 so I could figure out more about it. you're first dip off is about 100hz and below, so maybe HP filtering out anything on any track possible that's not doing anything important., like the pianos is a big one, its quiet muddy, and getting the bass and kick up a few DB. The second dip is at 1.8k to 2k with something like a 1.8 octave curve. Everything sounds good to me there, just overall tonally it's dipped there 4db or so. The last dip is in the high's above 12kish and rolls off.

I think the most important thing to help make your vocals sit, is to start with a clean palate. If you can get away with it, take your cleanest compressor and even those vocals out. That should always be step one, is even levels. Then, take big broad boost's of the area's(In this case the track needed alot of high end) that need boosting, and same with cuts. Make it sound even tonal wise(If that makes sense) After that, if you look on a Frequency analayzer, you will notice certain letters and sounds peak through at different frequencies. For example, this song "... with 'F'ire in his heart" or "his Sea legs Soon"
The F is in the mid range and needs to be de essed. and same with the S its somewhere around 8k and even the T's sound around 12k. You need to set a de esser so it individually evens out those transients, then like magic you will notice your vocal track will have a very 3D like quality, it will start cutting through the mix when this is done right. That's my approach to vocals and it seems to work pretty well. Anyways, good mix Smile
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#5
Well, I thought I'd take a slightly deeper look at the overall frequencly balance out of curiousity there, as you mentioned the 'mastering' for my mix. I am far from expert though! Interesting regarding the difference in sound cards.

Overall mix balance/frequency curve wise, the low end is sitting about right for me I feel. I can hear it there underpinning the mix. Maybe just the odd note pokes out a bit more than others a little perhaps, but it's not at all that bothersome and you have to really listen for it.

You might be able to boost some of the upper frequencies of the bass guitar a bit to get it the bass guitar to cut through a little more, but it's tricky. I found it quite difficult to get the bass to cut at all, as there is a lot of things fighting for that low mid sort of area - vocal, guitars, whistle, etc. I tried to give the bass a little bit more poke in my 1.0 revision as I felt it was getting a little lost in my first attempt. I recall the bass in letifer85's mix cut through quite well, so might be worth checking that mix for the bass.

I used a combination of de-esser and volume automation on the vocal esses. You can just zoom in and knock them down a bit. I usually kind of forget to de-ess as it doesn't usually bother me that much, unless it's really quite prominent.

I remember that I used a ping pong delay on the vocals of the Dorothea Wessel track, which is really challenging for the esses. RoyM pointed out that it was making all the esses bounce round everywhere, and perhaps wasn't the best choice of processing to use, so I have done exactly the same thing. EDIT: It was actually the Silona track.

I do have the old faderport for automation, but I seem to rarely use it and just draw it in mostly. It is quite good fun doing passes and levelling things out with it though on the odd occasion. I would really like to try what I think is SSL style automation where the automation moves add or remove from the existing automation moves rather than completely replace, so you can do multiple passes to really hone in and build what you want, but my DAW doesn't offer that.

Cheers!
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#6
I think the the thing some people get confused on here is mixing and a mastered mix .A proper pro master can do wonders you would never imagine .There's mastering engineers and mastering engineers
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#7
I only mix on here, so I certainly have no experience of having a mix mastered by a pro, Which is why I put mastering in quotes.

The impression I get of mastering is more that it is an experienced set of ears on the mix, ideally in a some sort of tuned room with decent speakers, with some tools to correct any issues if they can be fixed on the stereo mix. Aside from sorting out stuff like barcodes and delivery formats, and other wizardry that they do.

I do think we all aim to provide the best mix we are able, and to fix as many issues as we can. If eq on the mixbus does that then fine, or if you can sort it in the mix that's better perhaps. Working on that as part of the mix process more the angle where I am coming from here, and thought it might help.

As well as the more technical side of mixing, in effect through all our comments we are also all really helping each other to understand how our mixes translate to all our different systems aren't we? It's really interesting and helpful to get a range of opinions I think, and I think it really does help us all raise our collective game.

In this case Crownoise's reply was also interesting and insightful, and helps all of us to improve our ears I think?

So I would say that is maybe more in line with what people on here term as 'mastering' maybe? Sorry to hijack, and be a bit rambling with my thoughts there!
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#8
I agree we need to get out mixes the best sounding we can .But the people that have their mixes pro mastered probably don't sweat to much over a tiny bit of mids mud or translation to much.Thats what your paying for
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#9
I figure they would be sweating more Big Grin.

Cheers!
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#10
Lol  i wouldn't
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