Alex The Adventurer

[juanjose1967]

My first attempt to mix an orchestra. Maybe I should have panned the instruments just like in a real one by putting strings on one side, winds on another and so; but instead I decided to pan them according to the melody and their interaction with other instruments.

Whether I was right or wrong, let me know. Besides, you're the experts!!

[pauli]

Hey, friend Juan!

I don't like to use words like right or wrong when I speak of artistic endeavors, because while there is an element to taste where learned skills are very important, our taste is largely based on opinions, which by definition cannot be right or wrong! Having said that, I think there are a few things I feel you could do to improve the emotional impact of this song.

My original education in music is orchestral... I played oboe (poorly, to the chagrin of my fellow students... it's a tough instrument ) and learned a great deal about how music in this style conveys emotion.

This is intended as a soundtrack to an adventure film... imagine Luke Skywalker speeding away from the Deathstar as it exploded, or Indiana Jones running from an, in retrospect, extremely fake boulder with your eyes closed as you listen. There is a lack of impact in your chest, and a lack of excitement.

The reason symphony orchestras get along just fine without micing their instruments and processing them is that they have a huge advantage... their music is coming from a source spread out over the entire room 100 feet away, rather than coming from two speakers and a subwoofer! So they don't have to deal with things like frequency masking! So under our limitations, we have to make EQ cuts in a few places to allow instruments room to breathe. For example, volume match the two intro tracks: staccato violins and woodwinds and isolate them. Notice how when played together, the woodwinds are barely audible... the flute is lost entirely and the oboe peeks it's nose out a teeny bit on offbeats. They're operating in the same bands, so consider boosting the ranges where the flute is dominant on the woodwind track and cutting the ranges where the oboe is dominant in the staccato violin track, and you'll find that with the right attention to detail, the two will blend together very naturally! The same principal applies to the xylophone and piano, so experiment with that.


Another advantage of a live symphony orchestra is that the musicians all have context to rely on, so they can tailor their specific attacks, releases and dynamics to the material in accord with their emotion. This tune is based on samples, so it is lacking in that department. Music of this nature requires strong attacks to build excitement, so consider transient processing to enhance the attacks and force the instruments to release a little sooner so that the attacks of other instruments can come through more clearly.

Also, bear in mind that all of these instruments are presented in stereo, so I wouldn't touch a pan nob unless I had to! You might even consider narrowing the stereo image in a few places for more focus. They also have a very appropriate printed ambience, so use verbs and delays extremely sparingly, only to highlight important instruments, like perhaps the french horn section in the beginning.

And finally, there should be no compression going on here at all. In this style, the more dynamics, the better! Orchestral performances don't require instruments to sit neatly in little pockets like pop music, so keep it sounding natural. If you perform your EQ and transient processing correctly, you'll need no compression whatsoever to make this song work. In fact, I actually put an expander on the master bus to enhance the dynamics!

I realize I've written a novel here, but in all honesty, Mr. Hayat did an incredible job arranging his samples and programming them, so use as little processing as you can get away with. EQ faders, transient processing, and very sparing use of delays or verbs will be all you need .

You did very well considering your lack of experience and background. These tweaks, while I've described them in depth, are very simple. It took a lot of courage for me to attempt this (I'd never mixed an orchestra either), but I was startled at how little it took to get what I wanted. The raw tracks actually sounded pretty good before I even messed with them. So don't start over... just clear up your sub to low mid range a bit more, use a bit of EQ to clear some space here and there, and enhance the attacks and releases where appropriate, and the natural track volumes will explain themselves to you!

My first attempt to mix an orchestra. Maybe I should have panned the instruments just like in a real one by putting strings on one side, winds on another and so; but instead I decided to pan them according to the melody and their interaction with other instruments.

Whether I was right or wrong, let me know. Besides, you're the experts!!

[juanjose1967]

wow, you gave me a lot of things to think of!!! But I'm going to follow your advice and try to give it a new perspective! thanks for your time to write such a long comment

[pauli]

wow, you gave me a lot of things to think of!!! But I'm going to follow your advice and try to give it a new perspective! thanks for your time to write such a long comment

No thanks necessary... it was a pleasure, and when I comment on another's mix, it gives me the opportunity to consider the pros and cons of my own decision. I'd love to hear any revisions, given that you did very well for a first crack in this genre... I'm anticipating something brilliant.

[Voelund]

That is excellent advice. Also consider placin some instruments close/far away. Close more top and loend, less verb opposite for the far away ones.

[juanjose1967]

I checked on my mix and after your suggestions, I decided to start from the very beginning again.

This time I haven't used compressors and barely no reverbs. Just EQ to the majority of tracks.

I've also respected the tracks' panning position and I've tried to pull some instruments farther than others.

Is it better than before now?

[pauli]

Yes, MUUUUCH better. Separation, micro-dynamics, illusion of space, all have been considerably improved . Your EQ decisions have also made the tracks sound a lot more like live instruments and a lot less like samples. There are a few places where I'd have balanced things a little differently, but without Jeff Hayat in the room with us, it's really hard to gauge compositional intent, so we have to guess at which bits and pieces should be more important, and your decisions sound good.

Only major bone I have is that the big boomy drum is a little too big and boomy but this is a huge improvement. Great job!

[juanjose1967]

Thanks Pauli!! You really made me pay attention to the important things in an orchestra and made me focus more clearly on the instruments. Thank you again, my friend

[thedon]

Sounds great here !

[pauli]

One thing for which you can always count on me is a detailed listen my suggestions might be wrong and terrible given my newness, but a detailed listen is always my pleasure.