In a backroom in Tulsa, dirty deeds get done.....

[The_Metallurgist]

yo, gang!

Wesley's graphic story telling....too good to push back in the mix?

[TChianit]

yo, gang!

Wesley's graphic story telling....too good to push back in the mix?

Hi,

I see what you mean your mix seems more coherent then mine. Levels are all around very good.

BTW I just purchased an Avantone tube mic…great mic.

Thanks for the listen and sharing.

TC

[The_Metallurgist]

yo, gang!

Wesley's graphic story telling....too good to push back in the mix?

Hi,

I see what you mean your mix seems more coherent then mine. Levels are all around very good.

BTW I just purchased an Avantone tube mic…great mic.

Thanks for the listen and sharing.

TC

cool, TC

what i found difficult was getting a realistic perspective on the instruments. i find 20 foot wide drum kits ridiculous, so too pianos recorded in stereo and mixed across the full stereo panorama. so, to keep the stereo balance working, i made some concessions which didn't go down too well with me. but at least the image is realistic....close your eyes and immerse yourself in the performance. well, at least this was my goal, heh.

thanks for popping in.

well done on the mic! from what i've heard it's quite a nice one, especially for the dosh.

[Voelund]

First thing I think you did a fine mix of this.

From a technical point of view I think you did some very valid mix decisions, makin it a little bright oldschool nearly mono with the voice very upfront, without makin it sound karaoke, and only the well choosen verb effect bein wide. I may find the OH mics to be a little too loud, but that could come from knowing how the roomtracks sound
I dont hear much automation goin on, and if that presumption is right you did a very good job of eq so you dont have to. Theres a backside to that coin though, and it is you miss out on the very exciting extra points gained from makin the diffrent elements in the song have a communication, which brings me to:

If I look at the mix aesthetically i miss the roomtracks a lot and the drums "caboomph" at 0.28 is a free exciter if turned up in lvl. This is the kind of mix where drawin attention to whatever instrument plays an exciting or textreflectin noise can create an allmost magical atmosphere and fader ridin is so much fun. In my opinon that is :-)
In my mix i made a virtue out of listenin through the difrent tracks and findin whatever phrases i liked or thought reflected the lyrics and turn them up, only so they didnt conflict with either voice or guitar solo.

This is the kind of suggestion to either ignore if youre satisfied with your mix or try out, if you want to try it with another approach.

[The_Metallurgist]

@Voeland,

thanks for popping in and dropping some ears by the mix. appreciated.

on reflection, the mix was too bright really (the shaker during the intro for example isn't a very polite welcome to the story!). my fault for not keeping my ears calibrated; i should know better!

my vision was to have the vocal intimate without the band climbing over it, so in order to push the band back sufficiently, the mix was made less stereo and tighter. i'm still arguing with myself over this strategy! so, EQ when applied, was to shape the tones and textures into a cohesive space as well as try and fix some gremlins. if i can close my eyes and point to the musicians and not have them sound like they are climbing over one another, then i'm on my way.

there is actually a lot of automation going on here and with most, if not all instruments, but when i say a lot, that's not a lot in terms of handfuls of amplitude, but gentle tweaks. if you listen to the piano, this drops back or opens up on occasion for example, and the acoustic guitar was asked to shout a bit at one key point i wanted to emphasise on the way in - i over did it actually because of the EQ i'd also applied to it previously. i will ride faders now and again too but only tend to do so if the mouse isn't in the mood or it's a tricky part! the Steel here, for example, was ridden in a few places, though mainly because i wanted to change the dynamics - mouse wouldn't cut it.

there are indeed some things i'd like to revisit and thank you for your valid points and observations meanwhile. your time is appreciated.

[pauli]

I think you succeeded in your efforts to make the vocal nice and intimate. Level and EQ decisions are really working for me there in terms of creating a nice, tight pocket where the vocal could sit quite nicely... that can be really tricky to do with a narrower stereo image. A rude, lurid tune like this deserves to have its lyrics heard as to offend as many people as possible... maybe zappa said that at one point? Great work on that score.

As for humble suggestions, some of the instruments have a bit too much pick noise for my taste, which is probably just from the overall brightness of the mix that you mentioned in the previous post. I think a bit more roominess would be a good thing, too... you could try widening the stereo image a teensy bit if you're not into the idea of using verbs or delays. I've also seen some guys simply plop some generated white noise and feed it under the mix at a low level and I was amazed at how much sense of space was created with the technique... as of now I haven't had the guts to try it still learning myself.

great work, man. I cut my teeth on music much like this so I really appreciate the faithful reproduction. I used to play my dad's old swordfishtrombones vinyl as loud as I could to aggravate the old lady next door (shouldn't have let her dog poop in my yard) and this brought those old days back to me.

[Voelund]

White noise to create space ? No kiddin ? Gotta try that one !
Think I will turn my vocal bus up on this one after your Zappa words, great line.

[pauli]

White noise to create space ? No kiddin ? Gotta try that one !
Think I will turn my vocal bus up on this one after your Zappa words, great line.

I think Senior used that trick in one of his mix rescues... when I figure out which one I'll PM you a link.

[The_Metallurgist]

White noise to create space ? No kiddin ? Gotta try that one !
Think I will turn my vocal bus up on this one after your Zappa words, great line.

I think Senior used that trick in one of his mix rescues... when I figure out which one I'll PM you a link.

include me too, please I googled but nothing came up.

many thanks Pauli for your time here, i appreciate it immensely. the attack on the guitars was a bit of a creative decision (i wanted to get the aggression out), but you are right to highlight it, i think it needs pulling in a bit. the stereo image needs reworking, and is a major part of my own personal dissatisfaction with the mix, so i can deeply empathise with your listening experience. i used about 5 reverbs in this project overall, if memory serves, including a final over the whole mix in stereo for glue. this latter one should have had the high's rolled off more. actually, that's incorrect, what i should have done was mix less hi's, but pull them up in the master as air from 10k'ish. this mix is pretty bright, especially considering the stage depth of the instruments here. lot's started climbing out of the woodwork during the final process, to an extent that i actually surprised myself, but note i didn't have the levels up, so Fletcher Munson will likely be an issue! i was continually in pursuit of clarity and it didn't take much in my case, for the mix to collapse into a muddy puddle of low-mid mush which had me running for cover! i needed a better compromise which you are right to identify. there is another issue i had, which involves the panning of instruments that contain a lot of low-mid and mid range content. put this pumping stuff too much in one ear and it's a disaster. my battle was less with the mix and more with my own psyche! i'd love to fix it, but to be quite honest, i don't think i could bear it....the mere thought of revisiting all that blood everywhere? yikes!!

Swordfish trombones? revenge is sweet, eh?

just a mention, i had no idea who Wesley was until i'd finished the song and did some research. normally, i'd research first if i didn't know the band intimately, but in all mixes i do within this domain, i try and let instinct prevail....then blush afterwards if i've misjudged.

thanks for sharing.
Dave

[Voelund]

I read the article Pauli send me, as I understand it the subconscious awareness of unexpected noises like machinesounds and such were there for thickening the less thick actual instrumentation.
Ive used similar techniques in some mixes, I remember puttin a very low lvl sitar loop in one of the first songs I wrote to my wife and it created a tension in chorus, but werent really audible. Listen to Mark Knopflers Privateering song, theres a lot o use o that technique. The hicut lo vlv voices, the drum thing in chorus in uneven measures even. Very clever and exciting if you ask me