07-12-2020, 08:07 AM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2020, 03:58 PM by BKM.)
Hi, this is Björn. Tholas P.'s singer and I wrote Such Fine People, and I produced the track start to finish. I've first found cambridge-mt.com around 2015 when I started taking production a bit more seriously and it was always my hope to one day have a track of mine posted here! Now, here we are, 5 years later.
Of course you are encouraged to take this track in any direction you like. However, if you happen to be struggling with a particular element and you think I did at least a half-decent job in my original mix, then ask away! I'm happy to share my approach.
Also, if you just want to come here and kick me for only recording one overhead mic instead of the stereo pair I had actually set up, then this is fine as well. Just be aware that you can't kick harder than how I have already kicked myself.
Hello Björn! I really think you did a great job producing this song, it is very well put together, may i ask about the mics used in the drums and the vocals? also, what was your guitar chain? you got a really good tone, and for last, why did you decided to go for mono overhead? Cheers and great job!
Hey fireyomismo - first of all, thank you so much for the compliments! Regarding the mono overhead, you might want to re-read the last sentence in the post above haha ... very unfortunate routing mistake that I didn't spot on location with the drummer. I had just bought a Behringer X32 rack for large sessions like that and I was, in all honesty, completely overwhelmed with the routing possibilities.
Mics on drums:
Kick: Shure Beta 91A (in) and Beta 52A (out-ish, located just inside of the porthole)
Snare: SM57 (top), Audix i5 (bot)
Toms: Audix F2
OHs: Oktava MK 012 stereo (well ... hum) pair
Rooms: Audix F9
Vocal mic was a Shure Beta 58.
Guitar signal chain for rhythms was my Schecter C1 Exotic Star with EMG 81/60 into a Radial Pro48 DI box and into a Zoom UAC-2 audio interface. I edited the DI fairly tightly with the drums and the bass to enhance the groove. Then reamped it through my Kemper, profile was a 50W Wizard amp with a 4x12 Wizard cab created by the great Howard Benson. I believe I used a tubescreamer as well (no gain, volume 12 o'clock, tone 1-2 o'clock). The leads I played on an ESP LTD 401FM with EMG 81/60 but I can't exactly recall what amp and cab profiles I used, I just flicked through profiles until I found one that was sitting well in the mix. (Same approach for rhythm guitars but I was so surprised by the Wizard, which I had never heard of before, that I remembered it)
(07-12-2020, 08:07 AM)BKM Wrote: Also, if you just want to come here and kick me for only recording one overhead mic instead of the stereo pair I had actually set up, then this is fine as well. Just be aware that you can't kick harder than how I have already kicked myself.
Actually, to be honest, I never tried mixing drums with 1 OH before and to be perfectly honest it turned out incredibly. It maintained a solid centre image in my mix and the room filled out the sides. Who would have thought!
(07-12-2020, 01:28 PM)BKM Wrote: Hey fireyomismo - first of all, thank you so much for the compliments! Regarding the mono overhead, you might want to re-read the last sentence in the post above haha ... very unfortunate routing mistake that I didn't spot on location with the drummer. I had just bought a Behringer X32 rack for large sessions like that and I was, in all honesty, completely overwhelmed with the routing possibilities.
Mics on drums:
Kick: Shure Beta 91A (in) and Beta 52A (out-ish, located just inside of the porthole)
Snare: SM57 (top), Audix i5 (bot)
Toms: Audix F2
OHs: Oktava MK 012 stereo (well ... hum) pair
Rooms: Audix F9
Vocal mic was a Shure Beta 58.
Guitar signal chain for rhythms was my Schecter C1 Exotic Star with EMG 81/60 into a Radial Pro48 DI box and into a Zoom UAC-2 audio interface. I edited the DI fairly tightly with the drums and the bass to enhance the groove. Then reamped it through my Kemper, profile was a 50W Wizard amp with a 4x12 Wizard cab created by the great Howard Benson. I believe I used a tubescreamer as well (no gain, volume 12 o'clock, tone 1-2 o'clock). The leads I played on an ESP LTD 401FM with EMG 81/60 but I can't exactly recall what amp and cab profiles I used, I just flicked through profiles until I found one that was sitting well in the mix. (Same approach for rhythm guitars but I was so surprised by the Wizard, which I had never heard of before, that I remembered it)
Ok ... I just read this comment. Wow. Just, wow. I literally cannot believe you got such an amazing recording from that equipment. A Behringer X32? My goodness. I use those for mixing live gigs, and I thought they sounded very mediocre. Until today. I cannot believe the quality of this recording. I thought you must have recorded the session on an SSL or even an old Focusrite. I literally cannot believe how clear and dynamic the recording is. Unreal.
Secondly, the mics and the mic placement on the drum kit was so good that on my mix I use ZERO eq or compression on the individual channels except for the snare. I've attached a screenshot for proof. I only have a verb at 10% on the snare samples and some basic buss treatment, but that buss processing is very mild. Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.
Also, I would mention that I don't know much about guitars, or guitar equipment, but I did replace all the guitars with my own re-amping. I hope you don't mind.
Finally, everything else is so well done. I'm just shocked you used a Behringer x32. Shocked that it sounds that good.
Excellent recording, and thanks so much for allowing us to use it.
(07-12-2020, 08:07 AM)BKM Wrote: Also, if you just want to come here and kick me for only recording one overhead mic instead of the stereo pair I had actually set up, then this is fine as well. Just be aware that you can't kick harder than how I have already kicked myself.
Actually, to be honest, I never tried mixing drums with 1 OH before and to be perfectly honest it turned out incredibly. It maintained a solid centre image in my mix and the room filled out the sides. Who would have thought!
When I could I often used a mono OH in addition to the stereo OHs. It's cool to have the mono OH capturing the kit and groove in the verses and bring in the stereo OH for the choruses. Or just crushed the mono mic. It was just fun to have another option to play with. I also find that with a mono OH the panning of toms and spot HH and ride mics stand out more.
(07-12-2020, 08:07 AM)BKM Wrote: Also, if you just want to come here and kick me for only recording one overhead mic instead of the stereo pair I had actually set up, then this is fine as well. Just be aware that you can't kick harder than how I have already kicked myself.
Actually, to be honest, I never tried mixing drums with 1 OH before and to be perfectly honest it turned out incredibly. It maintained a solid centre image in my mix and the room filled out the sides. Who would have thought!
Haha, glad you enjoyed the challenge! There's certainly a place for mono overheads. I've seen it done by peers on more indie/rock productions that don't really need a super hifi aesthetics. It's kinda uncommon for metal but I do agree with you - makes for great kick and snare stereo image and leaves a lot of room on the sides for big, fat guitars!
15-12-2020, 07:28 PM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2020, 07:39 PM by BKM.)
(09-12-2020, 02:02 PM)Quathamer Wrote:
(07-12-2020, 01:28 PM)BKM Wrote: Hey fireyomismo - first of all, thank you so much for the compliments! Regarding the mono overhead, you might want to re-read the last sentence in the post above haha ... very unfortunate routing mistake that I didn't spot on location with the drummer. I had just bought a Behringer X32 rack for large sessions like that and I was, in all honesty, completely overwhelmed with the routing possibilities.
Mics on drums:
Kick: Shure Beta 91A (in) and Beta 52A (out-ish, located just inside of the porthole)
Snare: SM57 (top), Audix i5 (bot)
Toms: Audix F2
OHs: Oktava MK 012 stereo (well ... hum) pair
Rooms: Audix F9
Vocal mic was a Shure Beta 58.
Guitar signal chain for rhythms was my Schecter C1 Exotic Star with EMG 81/60 into a Radial Pro48 DI box and into a Zoom UAC-2 audio interface. I edited the DI fairly tightly with the drums and the bass to enhance the groove. Then reamped it through my Kemper, profile was a 50W Wizard amp with a 4x12 Wizard cab created by the great Howard Benson. I believe I used a tubescreamer as well (no gain, volume 12 o'clock, tone 1-2 o'clock). The leads I played on an ESP LTD 401FM with EMG 81/60 but I can't exactly recall what amp and cab profiles I used, I just flicked through profiles until I found one that was sitting well in the mix. (Same approach for rhythm guitars but I was so surprised by the Wizard, which I had never heard of before, that I remembered it)
Ok ... I just read this comment. Wow. Just, wow. I literally cannot believe you got such an amazing recording from that equipment. A Behringer X32? My goodness. I use those for mixing live gigs, and I thought they sounded very mediocre. Until today. I cannot believe the quality of this recording. I thought you must have recorded the session on an SSL or even an old Focusrite. I literally cannot believe how clear and dynamic the recording is. Unreal.
Secondly, the mics and the mic placement on the drum kit was so good that on my mix I use ZERO eq or compression on the individual channels except for the snare. I've attached a screenshot for proof. I only have a verb at 10% on the snare samples and some basic buss treatment, but that buss processing is very mild. Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.
Also, I would mention that I don't know much about guitars, or guitar equipment, but I did replace all the guitars with my own re-amping. I hope you don't mind.
Finally, everything else is so well done. I'm just shocked you used a Behringer x32. Shocked that it sounds that good.
Excellent recording, and thanks so much for allowing us to use it.
Thank you so much for your kind words. With the Behringer, there's two things to consider: 1) I was able to record an EXCELLENT drummer in a fantastic room (old wooden church room) and we spent a good couple of hours just tuning the kit (which had brand new heads) and placing the mics. 2) If you've worked on an older model of the x32, it may be you were on one that didn't have the MIDAS preamps yet. These old units were fairly dark and lofi sounding. Since Behringer bought MIDAS, they're using those preamps and honestly, they are great. They don't break up nicely like an SSL or a Neve would but if you keep them well in the green, they are just absolutely pristine and clean sounding. Insane value for money. However, be aware that Behringer is a contentious company and since buying that unit I was made aware that they behave like absolute jackasses in the industry. I'm not sure if I'm going to give them money again in the future but I'm certainly going to continue making records with this one.
Another thing I should add is that I'm absolutely not a gear head. I'm not at a stage in my career where I can afford much gear so it isn't even an option to care about it much.
However, I did spend a good chunk of my money on online education re: production. There's one thing in particular that I'll never forget: I've seen Andrew Wade (huge metal producer) shoot out different preamps on a guitar signal. Everything from a Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 to a 2.5k preamp. My mix room is acoustically treated and calibrated (another thing I chose to spend good money on) and except for the very cheapest preamp (which was a bit darker), I was not able to hear a difference. That means one of two things: 1) there actually is no difference; 2) my ears are not trained enough to spot a difference. Either way, the logical conclusion is that I should not think about investing into stuff like that for the moment.
About the guitars: happy that you took advantage of the DIs we provided and put your own spin on things!!
