First time mixing in this style

[pauli]

I feel good about this one reminds me of the old school r&b I listened to growing up in the nineties.

hope you enjoy!

[The_Metallurgist]

hi dude,

what do you think could be improved here?
what material have you referenced your mix against?

cheers,
bigdave

[pauli]

thanks for listening, dave.

I'm still trying to get together a respectable reference library... as of now it's practically empty. I try to listen to examples in a similar genre via spotify (which of course is self limiting) to tune my ears to my monitoring and sometimes I'll download another's mix of the same track that I liked and do what I can to match. In this case, I looked into mid 90s R&B for inspiration... destiny's child, the fujees and lauryn hill in particular.

the common thread seemed to be a largely bone dry mix with gentle leveling in the vocals and not so gentle leveling elsewhere, so that's what I tried to emulate. to me, the toughest challenge and probably biggest area for improvement is the vocal balance and stereo image.

how about you? where do you see opportunity for improvement? what artists/tracks would you reference for this song?

thanks again for compelling me to think... it's very helpful!

hi dude,

what do you think could be improved here?
what material have you referenced your mix against?

cheers,
bigdave

[The_Metallurgist]

hi pauli,

what i do is spend time now and again down the local library pulling out all sorts of stuff, even if i've never heard the musician before - ESPECIALLY if i've never heard them! this is a good way to broaden your listening skills too, while getting access to 16bit. ok, you have limited resource so you are living within some pretty serious constraints (e.g. Spotify)....but calibrating your ears to streamed material is not going to help you "excel". if this is the best you can do, i'd recommend you give up right now!

when looking for references, it's not about stuff you like hearing, but perhaps the way the drums are mixed in a particular song - GOOD OR BAD....it's perfect for referencing(!), how the vocal is treated or not treated, the distortion applied to a lead guitar, tonality overall...too dark...too bright....or perfect (but what's perfect in a world that's subjective?), shaping/level/dynamics of the bass, panning strategies, FX techniques, etc, etc, etc. i'm wondering if you are listening to music in a way someone's mother-in-law does, or whether you are drilling into the REAL specific detail at microscopic level?

you need to detach yourself also from the band or song. this is irrelevant in the main (but of course, it's still important in the scheme of things!). however, what IS REALLY IMPORTANT - TOP OF THE LIST IN PRIORITY, is THE MIXING ENGINEER and MASTERING ENGINEER that's done the work. i'd encourage you to focus on this aspect as the UTMOST PRIORITY (caps for emphasis, not shouting). only listen to those who are regarded as THE BEST ENGINEERS ON THE PLANET (present AND past), or you will crash and burn. there's nobody in this forum who's work you should be trying to replicate because they sound good to you. this is the worst strategy you could employ (see my beer metaphor below). that's a personal opinion, you will have yours no doubt.

talking of which, another question! how much of your listening life has been spent playing mp3/lossy sound material relative to "PRE 1995 CD MATERIAL"? give it to me as a percentage, yeah, or whatever best gives me an overall picture of your listening habits.

- i'd like to know what references you used to place the kick drum in your mix.
- what is your preferred listening choice of genre?
- do you know the frequency response of your mixing space? can you show any charts to me?
- are you a musician? if so, what's your chosen weapon (i'm only interested here for reasons to do with mixing!)

sharing with you what i'd use for referencing won't help you, i'm afraid. a reference is a personal thing which is why we build our own individual libraries.

i am also unwilling to tell you what i think could be improved here, at least at this juncture. the reason is that telling you won't help you develop the thought-processes that will enhance your general mixing prowess. you need to trust me on that. i will, however, depending on your reply to my questions, try and help you determine it's short-comings for yourself. this should help lay some foundations to build on which you can then apply when you listen to other mixes in this site.

if you didn't know for example, that beer should be served chilled.....you'd be happy if i served it warm?

this forum has major disadvantages....the blind are leading the blind much of the time. for example, if i told you what i thought was wrong with your mix, what makes my judgement more credible than someone else's? it's an individual's TERMS OF REFERENCE that determines their credibility and how we each form these Terms will dictate the better mixing engineers from the poor ones. part of my questioning is my way of ascertaining your current Terms of Reference and where best to go from here?

i recommend you have at least Michael Jackson's CD Thriller. make sure it is the original 1982 release and NOT a remaster OR a later pressing. researching will reveal why i've flagged this up as a must-have ;) I have the vinyl, but you should be aware that most stuff out there is scrap because it's been played to death making the grooves worn.

hope this is helping, at least so far. if you have any questions meanwhile, feel free. discussion is good.

catch you later,
bigdave

[pauli]

thanks for the detailed reply, dave, as well as your uncensored criticisms of my current (but not future) constraints. and I do mean that sincerely, because I try to look at all things and my life from every perspective when I can, even when it's slightly uncomfortable

At any rate, to your questions:

many of my current constraints, especially with my DAW, equipment, and reference library are largely financial because I'm a young parent with VERY young children, so I have to do my mixing in an untreated bedroom with grotbox speakers, and I have to build my library and resources slowly, so right now I'm making do with what I have with both eyes aimed squarely at the horizon

as for listening habits, I grew up listening to pre-digital era vinyl and own or have owned many pre-1995 CD releases as well as a good deal of vinyl, but I also listen to more modern recordings, too. probably about 50/50 if I had to put a number on it.

for placing the kick-drum in the mix, I used the reference material I mentioned to you previously, mainly the fugees' album "the score" because I felt many aspects of their sound were appropriate to this track. having said that, the drums in the track were presented as a loop, which felt balanced to me in comparison to the reference, so I didn't slice it up and separate everything, although that'd be pretty easy to do.

preferred genre is a tough question... I have broad tastes, but my favorite album of all time is "the layla sessions," but it would be a lot easier to describe genres or examples with in a genre that I don't like than otherwise.

frequency response of my "mixing space" is a mess. top floor of an apartment building, bedroom with a big old mattress in it, computer tucked in the corner next to the bathroom, right angles everywhere. I do my best to listen to several songs on the speakers I use to monitor before I start mixing to tune in to the bass traps etc., but given my situation and the hurdles, it's often easier for me to use headphones, and the pair I have has a pretty even, uncolored response from 40 Hz to 20 kHz, with a bit of a dip in the 20 to 40 Hz range.

yeah, I'm a musician primarily guitarist, but also play keys, banjo, and a little bass.

thanks again for all the food for thought and the poigniant questions... I'm more well read on the topic than I'm properly equipped, so the inquiries are giving me more research ideas in the meantime, but I'm eager for your response.

cheers!
pauli

[Pedaling Prince]

I feel good about this one reminds me of the old school r&b I listened to growing up in the nineties.

OK, you've heard my mix of this one. As you pointed out, our approaches were similar. However, I felt your mix had three flaws:

1. It sounds a little muddy, like I'm listening to the mix through a box of old socks. Not sure what the problem is there, though you might try hipass filtering any track not contributing to the bass content to remove any unneeded low frequencies.
2. The kick drum isn't thick enough; this kind of music needs a kick with real "thump." Maybe try boosting it a bit in the 80 Hz range and/or adding some judicious distortion...?
2. Too dry. Yes, this style requires a dry approach but there should at least be a little reverb on there, for presence.

[hanibal005]

It just isn't gangsta enough