01-11-2020, 12:01 AM
Hi!
Appreciated the reply. I don't think I could have interpreted that response any other way really, but you live and learn. Whatever. I guess if it has prompted the first post in 5-6 years we can chalk that up as some sort of a win
.
Anyway I think we can move on.
Yeah posting and getting replies can be a bit hit and miss. I do find I learn quite a lot from just doing a mix and posting it though, so it's worth sticking with it. You can also try reaching out to people too for advice and feedback.
The good thing about this site is that you can check out my mix of this track, to gauge where I'm at, as I am very much still learning. As you mentioned it I think I've got some esses there that could be tamed a bit more.
I don't think there's too much info below 40Hz in your mix as such, the low end is hitting right at 40Hz I recall. It's just that for me the low end doesn't quite balance with the upper mids.
Yeah, the vocals are a bit recessed for me, so I was thinking that a little boost on the master might bring them out a bit more, and also balance with the bass, and bringing the vocals up in the mix would also help there too. That was my thinking anyway.
Well, I asked for your thoughts, as it is quite subjective, and all depends what you have in mind, and what sound you are going for really. Also I find some days just sound better than others for some reason. I am far from an expert, just here to learn too.
I need to go listen to it again so I might be wrong, but what I got from the commercial release is that the drums didn't actually hit quite as I would have thought. Bit lower in volume perhaps, not hitting quite as hard as they might, and not as much low end maybe. Also the vocal tone is a bit challenging to get it up front.
If you want the vocals up front, just make them sound up front. You can turn the vocals up - or everything else down, depending on how much headroom you left yourself.
I think there are many ways to get the vocals up front. I'll try and list some things that I think work for me. This will probably be a long post.
These are just my thoughts, others will probably have different ideas and ways of doing things. For me the important thing is to try lots of things and figure out what solution works for you for a given situation.
One thing is that I get each instrument group on a separate bus/vca (I keep all sends within a group as well, so I'll have drums reverb on the drum bus, vocal reverb on the vocal bus, etc), so I can easily change the levels of each group relative to each other.
- Oh, big thing that worked for me is to listen at a quiet level. Also listen at a fixed reference level. That way you can judge how loud things are, and also better judge how to eq things relative to each other better. Well, that's how it seemed to me. Also if you have a reference volume, you can tell if you are turning it up too much and you need to take a break.
- A good balance can get you a long way, before you start adding effects, etc.
- Vocal Automation. Once you have a good general balance, you can automate the volume of each syllable up and down to keep it on top of the mix. You might also be able to volume automate the esses too, etc.
- Compression - Could try something like 1176 style compression starting with fast attack and medium release. LA2A is too slow release for me I think. Something like rvox might work too, but I haven't felt the need to use it for ages.
- Parallel chains. Parallel compression. Vocal crush track. Whatever you can think of! You can use parallel eq - duplicate the vocal track, add an eq with some mids dialled in, or Aphex exciter or whatever and blend it in with the main vocal, just enough to give it that extra lift. Try waves doubler or similar, crushed with an 1176.
- Sidechaining. If you've got some parts that are clashing with the vocal, and eq isn't quite working you can side chain parts so they duck down a db when the vocal hits.
- Widening - Try blending in a short, or not so short, stereo delay. Something like 30ms one side and 40ms on the other. Or even longer like 150 on one side and 200 on the other. The idea is to blend it so you just get a sense of width. Sometimes you can make it more obvious. Or go the other way and have a wide track, but narrow vocal...
- Reverb. It's worth spending time going through loads of reverbs and presets to find what works on a given vocal. After a time you might be able to build up a shortlist of go to settings to try.
- Back to eq. Eq the vocal in context of the mix. I get this wrong occasionally and end up with the vocals a bit too mid-rangy, but you can sometimes get the vocals to pop by just adding a touch of midrange boost. It depends. It's hard to explain really - I think it's something you have to experiment with in context. Don't be afraid of doing huge boosts either, if it works, it works. I prefer boosting rather than cutting anyway. You can also add a high cut to remove harshness, and kind of eq into the high cut filter. Eq in to compression too, to take the edge off. For me if you can't boost enough because the compressor is eating it all, then you can add an eq after the compressor.
Oh, also check out Mike Senior's Sound on Sound podcast on distortion. There's some examples for vocals. I really enjoyed it anyway.
As I said before, just my thoughts, in lieu of an expert opinion. Might help, might not. I feel you are heading in the right direction anyway.
Cheers!
Appreciated the reply. I don't think I could have interpreted that response any other way really, but you live and learn. Whatever. I guess if it has prompted the first post in 5-6 years we can chalk that up as some sort of a win
. Anyway I think we can move on.
Yeah posting and getting replies can be a bit hit and miss. I do find I learn quite a lot from just doing a mix and posting it though, so it's worth sticking with it. You can also try reaching out to people too for advice and feedback.
The good thing about this site is that you can check out my mix of this track, to gauge where I'm at, as I am very much still learning. As you mentioned it I think I've got some esses there that could be tamed a bit more.
I don't think there's too much info below 40Hz in your mix as such, the low end is hitting right at 40Hz I recall. It's just that for me the low end doesn't quite balance with the upper mids.
Yeah, the vocals are a bit recessed for me, so I was thinking that a little boost on the master might bring them out a bit more, and also balance with the bass, and bringing the vocals up in the mix would also help there too. That was my thinking anyway.
Well, I asked for your thoughts, as it is quite subjective, and all depends what you have in mind, and what sound you are going for really. Also I find some days just sound better than others for some reason. I am far from an expert, just here to learn too.
I need to go listen to it again so I might be wrong, but what I got from the commercial release is that the drums didn't actually hit quite as I would have thought. Bit lower in volume perhaps, not hitting quite as hard as they might, and not as much low end maybe. Also the vocal tone is a bit challenging to get it up front.
If you want the vocals up front, just make them sound up front. You can turn the vocals up - or everything else down, depending on how much headroom you left yourself.
I think there are many ways to get the vocals up front. I'll try and list some things that I think work for me. This will probably be a long post.
These are just my thoughts, others will probably have different ideas and ways of doing things. For me the important thing is to try lots of things and figure out what solution works for you for a given situation.
One thing is that I get each instrument group on a separate bus/vca (I keep all sends within a group as well, so I'll have drums reverb on the drum bus, vocal reverb on the vocal bus, etc), so I can easily change the levels of each group relative to each other.
- Oh, big thing that worked for me is to listen at a quiet level. Also listen at a fixed reference level. That way you can judge how loud things are, and also better judge how to eq things relative to each other better. Well, that's how it seemed to me. Also if you have a reference volume, you can tell if you are turning it up too much and you need to take a break.
- A good balance can get you a long way, before you start adding effects, etc.
- Vocal Automation. Once you have a good general balance, you can automate the volume of each syllable up and down to keep it on top of the mix. You might also be able to volume automate the esses too, etc.
- Compression - Could try something like 1176 style compression starting with fast attack and medium release. LA2A is too slow release for me I think. Something like rvox might work too, but I haven't felt the need to use it for ages.
- Parallel chains. Parallel compression. Vocal crush track. Whatever you can think of! You can use parallel eq - duplicate the vocal track, add an eq with some mids dialled in, or Aphex exciter or whatever and blend it in with the main vocal, just enough to give it that extra lift. Try waves doubler or similar, crushed with an 1176.
- Sidechaining. If you've got some parts that are clashing with the vocal, and eq isn't quite working you can side chain parts so they duck down a db when the vocal hits.
- Widening - Try blending in a short, or not so short, stereo delay. Something like 30ms one side and 40ms on the other. Or even longer like 150 on one side and 200 on the other. The idea is to blend it so you just get a sense of width. Sometimes you can make it more obvious. Or go the other way and have a wide track, but narrow vocal...
- Reverb. It's worth spending time going through loads of reverbs and presets to find what works on a given vocal. After a time you might be able to build up a shortlist of go to settings to try.
- Back to eq. Eq the vocal in context of the mix. I get this wrong occasionally and end up with the vocals a bit too mid-rangy, but you can sometimes get the vocals to pop by just adding a touch of midrange boost. It depends. It's hard to explain really - I think it's something you have to experiment with in context. Don't be afraid of doing huge boosts either, if it works, it works. I prefer boosting rather than cutting anyway. You can also add a high cut to remove harshness, and kind of eq into the high cut filter. Eq in to compression too, to take the edge off. For me if you can't boost enough because the compressor is eating it all, then you can add an eq after the compressor.
Oh, also check out Mike Senior's Sound on Sound podcast on distortion. There's some examples for vocals. I really enjoyed it anyway.
As I said before, just my thoughts, in lieu of an expert opinion. Might help, might not. I feel you are heading in the right direction anyway.
Cheers!
Just uploaded a mix/master? Waiting for comments? Why not give back and critique a mix/master, or two!