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Digital Only Logic Proz Late Mayonnaise
#11
(12-10-2020, 06:28 AM)Quathamer Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 01:21 PM)RoyM Wrote: ... I still say I can judge a mix on earbuds because 90% (if not more) of what makes a mix good happens in the range that headphones can reproduce. If I'm missing the good bits of a mix because they happen at 30hz then I'm not sure it's a good mix ...
Your earphones would be capable of hearing frequencies that need to be heard, but I would seriously question the accuracy and distortion of those frequencies.

The other and the more important point I would make is - your earphones will not be representing the dynamics of a mix properly. Because they are so close to your ears, the dynamics of the music won't translate well if you're then listening to the song on speakers. Same goes with any earphones. Speakers are critical to judging dynamics. Also, you won't have a good idea of what your centre image is sounding like. These are issues I've noticed in mixes of yours, but I think because of your experience you do compensate somewhat for these issues. 

I found that when I mixed on headphones, the mixes always sounded as if it had too many effects and was unclear. The reason for this is earphones also give you a poor representation of clarity because you're not having to compete with room noise and the sound is so isolated to just your ears. You also will have problems with identifying resonance.

My point is, the issues of earphone/headphone mixes have very little to do with the frequencies they cover. The issues are broadly dynamic, transient, transparency, clarity, bass management, etc. 

P.S. I'm glad the vocals sound better now.
That's possible and a fair point. That's why I post, for feedback of my mixes. Positive or negative. If you hear something wrong in one my mixes (and there's a lot of wrong things!) feel free to point them out and post something constructive. I tend to overdo things. I'd appreciate the feedback and the chance to learn and adapt.

My main point is that a mix isn't good if it only needs to be heard on full range speakers. If I had 'em I'd use 'em. And none of the issues of this mix I posted originally had anything to do with dynamics or the center image. Maybe "resonance" if you count the vocal sound. My critiques tend to be fairly broad and obtuse. I try not to get into the nuts and bolts too much mostly because I go in with the ear of a casual listener. Monitoring aside. It's more emotional than technical. Maybe that's a disservice but I feel like that's all that matters in the end. And I'm not the only person one here. Maybe someone will come along and say they love the vocals or whatever. Then I reassess and try to figure what I'm hearing wrong or not getting.
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#12
(11-10-2020, 01:21 PM)RoyM Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 10:30 AM)crownoise Wrote: For me this is a reaally good mix! No need for over the top critisising posts when the level is this high, just makes the poster look stupid instead of comming with a valid solution to a specific problem. We all have our Rights to critisise but we all also can question that. For me only i can think of is that the highend can be more squared some how, maybe tilted more towards transients, like compressing master with slow settings and MB deess after, brilliant work though. PS not saying Roys comment is stupid, just saying that hej has the right to question the quality of the monitoring. Also i mean that being a bit overly critisising everytime is unesessary when the issued obviously demands some recognizion, makes the commentors fall flat, not the other way round.
Not to belabor the point but do I overly criticize? (Ok maybe sometimes) And if so, is that a bad thing? Are we posting mixes for feedback or just adulation? Is the fact that I admit to using earbuds a scapegoat? Does everyone on here listen on studio monitors or on their laptops at home? If I instead say I listen on Genelecs or whatever would that help? NS-10s? I don't post as much as I should I suppose but when I do I feel like it's a responsibility to point out the things that jump out at me as a listener and "professional". I still say I can judge a mix on earbuds because 90% (if not more) of what makes a mix good happens in the range that headphones can reproduce. If I'm missing the good bits of a mix because they happen at 30hz then I'm not sure it's a good mix. And nor would the average listener. You can question the monitoring if you'd like but consider who may be on the other end of the monitoring and maybe they know what they're talking about and may have a valid point because they have fair amount of experience.

I feel like we're too sensitive on here. And it feels like we're not looking for ways to improve our craft but for people to just tell us our mixes are great. Which I feel like it's boring and doesn't help. If a mix has issues I'll point it out. And, generally, do so without being overly harsh. Maybe I'm wrong. It's what I expect when I post a mix. I usually don't say anything that a client or producer wouldn't say.

Anyway, sorry to rant again. It's just something that's been on my mind. 

As for mix 2 the vocals definitely feel better.

No Roy i wasn't specifically pointing that towards you. I just see this abit more often then what i think its doing any good. (and yes i am a bit clumbsy when writing so i see why it might have come across as it was ment against you Roy) I get your point, if noone says anything or give guidlines then we would not excel in our craft. But how often do we see someone comment the "perfect" mix. Maybe thats because there are none i dont know, but it feels like we as engineers look down on the quality and capacity that we posses and show. 
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#13
(12-10-2020, 01:40 PM)RoyM Wrote:
(12-10-2020, 06:28 AM)Quathamer Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 01:21 PM)RoyM Wrote: ... I still say I can judge a mix on earbuds because 90% (if not more) of what makes a mix good happens in the range that headphones can reproduce. If I'm missing the good bits of a mix because they happen at 30hz then I'm not sure it's a good mix ...
Your earphones would be capable of hearing frequencies that need to be heard, but I would seriously question the accuracy and distortion of those frequencies.

The other and the more important point I would make is - your earphones will not be representing the dynamics of a mix properly. Because they are so close to your ears, the dynamics of the music won't translate well if you're then listening to the song on speakers. Same goes with any earphones. Speakers are critical to judging dynamics. Also, you won't have a good idea of what your centre image is sounding like. These are issues I've noticed in mixes of yours, but I think because of your experience you do compensate somewhat for these issues. 

I found that when I mixed on headphones, the mixes always sounded as if it had too many effects and was unclear. The reason for this is earphones also give you a poor representation of clarity because you're not having to compete with room noise and the sound is so isolated to just your ears. You also will have problems with identifying resonance.

My point is, the issues of earphone/headphone mixes have very little to do with the frequencies they cover. The issues are broadly dynamic, transient, transparency, clarity, bass management, etc. 

P.S. I'm glad the vocals sound better now.
That's possible and a fair point. That's why I post, for feedback of my mixes. Positive or negative. If you hear something wrong in one my mixes (and there's a lot of wrong things!) feel free to point them out and post something constructive. I tend to overdo things. I'd appreciate the feedback and the chance to learn and adapt.

My main point is that a mix isn't good if it only needs to be heard on full range speakers. If I had 'em I'd use 'em. And none of the issues of this mix I posted originally had anything to do with dynamics or the center image. Maybe "resonance" if you count the vocal sound. My critiques tend to be fairly broad and obtuse. I try not to get into the nuts and bolts too much mostly because I go in with the ear of a casual listener. Monitoring aside. It's more emotional than technical. Maybe that's a disservice but I feel like that's all that matters in the end. And I'm not the only person one here. Maybe someone will come along and say they love the vocals or whatever. Then I reassess and try to figure what I'm hearing wrong or not getting.
I can relate to that, how many people own systems for big money now adays compared to how we listen to it now. I would defenitly say over 70% have earbuds or midtier headphones.
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#14
The vocal sounds thick because of the lack of sibilance. Try using an expander on the vocal track maybe from 6k and above then de-ess to control it. That should make the vocal sound more "clear" and less "boomy".
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