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Perpetual Escape - Sin Six
#1
Hi,

Cool track.
My mix attempt.

Cheers!

Update 1.0: Reduced volume of guitar riff in verse 1, reduced low end of kick, increased vocal level a touch, added just a touch of extra width in choruses.  Thanks to RoyM and DctrRoss for the suggestions.


.mp3    Perpetual Escape - Sin Six.mp3 --  (Download: 8.16 MB)


.mp3    Perpetual Escape - Sin Six 1.0.mp3 --  (Download: 8.16 MB)


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#2
Sounds really good.
The riff guitar at the first verse is a bit loud. I think the vocals in general could be a little more forward. But that's minor. It all works.
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#3
The kick is really heavy in the sub-woofer. When I bypass the sub it sounds perfect.
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#4
Hi!

Hey, thanks Roy.

Yeah, I wasn't really sure about the level of that riff at the start.  I think I dropped it by about 6db or so already from where I had it originally so could have been worse!! Cheers for pointing it out.  I'll try and tuck it in a bit more.  I'll also bump up the vocals a bit. 

I feel I do need to do a bit more work on vocal levels as you are not the first person to comment on them being a touch low in my mixes. 

It could be just my taste, but I suspect the level may be not quite translating as I would like and/or I am getting it a touch wrong...  I think vocals also maybe sound a bit lower on headphones compared to monitors anyway, so I probably do need to  bump them up a bit by 0.5-1db or something to account for that too.  I don't always check on headphones, I really should make a habit of it I think, it might help!

My thinking/approach is that  if the vocals are too up in the mix it makes the guitars and things less powerful, but I am maybe not getting it quite right yet.  In my mind I'm aiming for something like the chorus vocals in Paramore's Monsters  or something like that I think, by way of example.

Really appreciate your comments, kind of confirms a couple of thoughts that were at the back of my mind - if that makes sense.

Cheers!
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#5
(15-09-2020, 10:04 PM)DctrRoss Wrote: The kick is really heavy in the sub-woofer. When I bypass the sub it sounds perfect.
Hey thanks.  I didn't check - I should probably lean over and switch on the sub occasionally.  I don't seem to be bothering with it much just recently for some reason Blush .
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#6
(15-09-2020, 10:07 PM)mikej Wrote: Hi!

Hey, thanks Roy.

Yeah, I wasn't really sure about the level of that riff at the start.  I think I dropped it by about 6db or so already from where I had it originally so could have been worse!! Cheers for pointing it out.  I'll try and tuck it in a bit more.  I'll also bump up the vocals a bit. 

I feel I do need to do a bit more work on vocal levels as you are not the first person to comment on them being a touch low in my mixes. 

It could be just my taste, but I suspect the level may be not quite translating as I would like and/or I am getting it a touch wrong...  I think vocals also maybe sound a bit lower on headphones compared to monitors anyway, so I probably do need to  bump them up a bit by 0.5-1db or something to account for that too.  I don't always check on headphones, I really should make a habit of it I think, it might help!

My thinking/approach is that  if the vocals are too up in the mix it makes the guitars and things less powerful, but I am maybe not getting it quite right yet.  In my mind I'm aiming for something like the chorus vocals in Paramore's Monsters  or something like that I think, by way of example.

Really appreciate your comments, kind of confirms a couple of thoughts that were at the back of my mind - if that makes sense.

Cheers!
I think vocal levels really can vary. And on a song like this they can be back a bit. They're not buried and someone else might come along and think they're fine but I think in this one they could grab you just a bit more. I think part of it is the fact that it's a heavy song with a fairly melodic vocal right at the top and I think that hi guitar part obscures it a bit. But still I think throughout they can come up a hair. Or maybe just an upper midrange boost to make them a bit more aggressive.
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#7
(15-09-2020, 10:10 PM)mikej Wrote:
(15-09-2020, 10:04 PM)DctrRoss Wrote: The kick is really heavy in the sub-woofer. When I bypass the sub it sounds perfect.
Hey thanks.  I didn't check - I should probably lean over and switch on the sub occasionally.  I don't seem to be bothering with it much just recently for some reason Blush .
I just did the opposite, I always have mine on and I must have hit the footswitch at some point and accidentally turned it off. I was trying to mix a song for an EDM artist and I thought good god his tracks lack low end. I had so much bottom added then realized the sub was off, I clicked it back on and WOW.
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#8
Quote:I think vocal levels really can vary. And on a song like this they can be back a bit. They're not buried and someone else might come along and think they're fine but I think in this one they could grab you just a bit more. I think part of it is the fact that it's a heavy song with a fairly melodic vocal right at the top and I think that hi guitar part obscures it a bit. But still I think throughout they can come up a hair. Or maybe just an upper midrange boost to make them a bit more aggressive.
Yeah, I agree with that, and think you are right that it needs to come up just a touch.

Funnily enough I did boost the upper midrange a bit once I thought I was about done... I was fiddling about with that Manny Marroquin Tone Shaper thing that was given away free recently, to try and figure it out.  Might come in a bit more handy than I initially thought.  It doesn't ever occur to me to try parallel eq as a tone solution really. 

I recall trying it on a piano or something ages ago after seeing Mr Pensado demonstrate it on one of the early into the lair things.

Cheers!
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#9
(15-09-2020, 10:34 PM)mikej Wrote:
Quote:I think vocal levels really can vary. And on a song like this they can be back a bit. They're not buried and someone else might come along and think they're fine but I think in this one they could grab you just a bit more. I think part of it is the fact that it's a heavy song with a fairly melodic vocal right at the top and I think that hi guitar part obscures it a bit. But still I think throughout they can come up a hair. Or maybe just an upper midrange boost to make them a bit more aggressive.
Yeah, I agree with that, and think you are right that it needs to come up just a touch.

Funnily enough I did boost the upper midrange a bit once I thought I was about done... I was fiddling about with that Manny Marroquin Tone Shaper thing that was given away free recently, to try and figure it out.  Might come in a bit more handy than I initially thought.  It doesn't ever occur to me to try parallel eq as a tone solution really. 

I recall trying it on a piano or something ages ago after seeing Mr Pensado demonstrate it on one of the early into the lair things.

Cheers!
That was one of the things I learned when looking into how all those initial Waves signature series of plug-ins worked and broke them down. Especially the CLA or JJP vocal ones. There's a lot of parallel compression and eq going on in those.. These days most of the time I send lead vocal to 4 or 5 parallel busses with different compression and eqs or distortion and blend them together. Throwing one out phase can create something interesting too.
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#10
Quote:That was one of the things I learned when looking into how all those initial Waves signature series of plug-ins worked and broke them down. Especially the CLA or JJP vocal ones. There's a lot of parallel compression and eq going on in those.. These days most of the time I send lead vocal to 4 or 5 parallel busses with different compression and eqs or distortion and blend them together. Throwing one out phase can create something interesting too.
Not sure if you have seen them already but there are some somewhat official diagrams floating about for the CLA ones that show roughly how they are set up, they certainly show the thinking behind them anyway.

Yeah, I think they are quite useful from a learning point of view. 
I find I mainly only use a small number of quite basic plugins these days (and I think my mixes are getting a bit better).  But I do use plenty of ideas and things (eq curves and compression ideas, etc) from all the various plugins I *thought* I needed, so not a total waste of money... haha.  Well I feel I have got value from them from an educational point of view.  It's funny - finding out what doesn't work for you is as equally useful as finding out what does I think.
I am pretty sure I wouldn't really understand what people are 'getting' from LA2A and 1176 compression unless I had the plugin emulations, for example.  I've never used any outboard gear.
I have certainly taken some inspiration from some of the eq curves, but I didn't really pick up on the parallel eq aspect before. I haven't tried the JJP ones but I did pick up the CLA pack a couple of years ago.  I quite like the cla bass one on occasion.
Anyway, bit of a ramble, but might be useful to someone I guess.
Cheers!
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