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Am I on the right track?
#1
I feel really good about this mix, which worries me, because I'm usually overly critical given my inexperience :|

My process was as follows:

I reduced the volume and gain of every track, as some of the original recordings were clipping heavily, and leveled/balanced them to taste. It also feels good to me to mix with a tape saturation plugin on the submix->mix bus on from the get go... feels nice and tight.

Personally, I like natural drum dynamics, but epic scale rock like this typically can't support a very dynamic kit without the bass and snare getting lost in the wash, so I applied high pass filters where applicable, compressed the overheads and then compressed the entire bus with Ferric saturation.

Then my attention to the lead vocals, which were rather uneven and peaky, so I applied compression and saturation to even things out and keep the quieter parts from getting washed out.

I used high pass filtering on almost all instruments, including the DI bass track so that it wouldn't frequency mask the kick drum tracks. Amp 1 sounds poopy to me so it is muted, with amp 2 allowed to come through as more of a quiet rumble to increase heaviness in the chorus.

Additional EQ work was performed on the vocals to maintain clarity without getting too airy and too maintain fullness without getting too muddy.

I went with the DI guitar tracks in most cases and used the VGA guitar amp to dial in a heavier, less treble-y roar during the choruses, muting the mic'd amps. There's also some peak catching saturation going on, but it's very subtle.

To maintain balance and shift dynamics from section to section, I automated the volume on the main bus with envelopes, boosting the master fader during the choruses. I found that the guitars were too loud and competing with the vocal during the choruses, so I enveloped them to decrease during the choruses, and boosted the #2 vocal track with the fader and a hard knee compression. The backing vocal track has the highs rolled off to push it back and is sweetened with an autopanned delay effect.

Finally, I glued the track together a bit more with a very small amount of reverb on the master bus, and since I used very minimal panning to keep the guitars centered and heavy, I put UpStereo on the master bus to widen the very few stereo tracks and reverb/delay effects, and add a little air and space. Lastly, I put a limiter at the very end of the chain to catch any stray transients and "pre-master" the final track, bringing it up to a listenable volume.

When referencing Mike's mix at the very end of my process, I noticed he's using significantly more upper mid-range and low treble frequencies then I used. Those frequencies tend wear out my ears when mixing so I try to keep them low... is this a mistake or just a matter of personal taste?

Am I on the right track here? A little corrective criticism seems in order, because I only really feel confident that I'm missing a grevious error somewhere. Thanks for listening!


.mp3    Zeno.mp3 --  (Download: 7.21 MB)


I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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#2
Sounds a bit busy, but a good mix !
The piano track for some reason starts a bar early, its so in the multitracks, but fits better if moved in my ears.
I see what youre after givin the master fader o move upwards in chorus, but its too obvious and draws attention, also the limiter hits pretty hard there, I would reduce the chorus lvl a bit.

The synthesizer rhythm loop sounds great.
In chorus evrythings fightin for space, and only the bas, drums, piano voices are gettin through.
I think automatin the tracks or subgroups and not hittin the limiter as hard in chorus will do the trick, maybe give guitars(padding) way more power there. There is a song by ABBA using this trick, the padding comes up in chorus and makes it big, lookin to see what its called. Must be "On and on and on" - listen how the piano, guitars and choir (and bas) ) makes the chorus big.

Addin a good eq to masterchain and givin your mix a small boost in hi area with very low q at say 14k would also brighten up things.

Hope I make sense.
Thx for the listen
Old ears, old gear, little boy inside love music and sounds and my wife, not necessarily in that order
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#3
thanks for the listen and the tips! I'll give em a try tonight when the kids go to bed and see if I can dig out some of the mud and make things less congested. I really don't like limiting anyway, but it seems like most of the posts I'm seeing are limited because they're peaking at 0 dB :| I have much to learn I'm afraid.

I'll repost version two later on to compare. thanks again for the advice!
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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#4
(29-12-2013, 11:16 PM)pauli Wrote: I really don't like limiting anyway, but it seems like most of the posts I'm seeing are limited because they're peaking at 0 dB :|

I know this mix was from quite a while ago when you were just starting out, but I'm sure you know by now that the fact that a track peaks at 0 dBFS does not necessarily mean it's been limited; it's simply been normalized to full volume which, in a finished mix, is important to do IMHO anyway. I never use a limiter and all of my tracks posted here peak at 0 dBFS (or close to it; sometimes converting to AAC will bring the top peak down a fraction of a dB).

(29-12-2013, 11:16 PM)pauli Wrote: I have much to learn I'm afraid.

At this point, I'm forced to agree. I have to be honest; I didn't like this at all. The balance of this mix is way off. The lead vocals are way too low, getting buried in the mix; the background vocals are, at times,too high, jumping out of the mix inappropriately. The stereo image of the electric guitars is, IMHO, too narrow; they feel jammed in the middle and they fight with the vocals. The piano is way too loud, and there doesn't seem to be any bass presence here. I can understand hipass filtering instruments that don't carry the bass to avoid mud but if you hipassed the bass guitar itself that might explain why there's so little bass here. If you want to carve some space for the kick I'd notch out its frequency range in the bass guitar maybe 6-12 dB with a parametric EQ as opposed to rolling off the entire low frequency end; IMHO using a hipass filter on a bass guitar is usually a bad idea.

I did a mix of this, one of my earlier ones. It's not one of my best but I'm willing to share it so you can compare it to yours; I'll upload it right now. Smile
John A. Ardelli
Pedaling Prince Pictures
http://www.youtube.com/user/PedalingPrince
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#5
As an artist, I totally understand where you're coming from, not really wanting to compress and flatten the entire song. BUT, I've learned that this is the only way to get consistency in songs/albums. Not every song, but most rock/pop/metal will need to have 60-80% leveled out near 0db. It's just the expectation nowadays. Like I said, it won't work on a jazz or orchestral piece, but for anything with a driving sound (especially this Muse-type of full powerhouse production), it'll need to be very consistent. Again, that does NOT mean you're being shunned for strong dynamics, just consider it more for other styles.
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#6
Thanks for popping by, justin. This is a very old and pretty bad mix... One of the very first I ever tried, and looking back it sounds like I had some pretty flimsy ideas about the uses and values of dynamics processing.

For the sake of discussion, these days I like to put a compressor on the master buss after I get the drums and bass working together, and setting the timing based in that... I've found it helps get the vocal level right without as much processing working directly on the vocal (and nothing else.). Most of my compression is on a channel to channel basis, but a properly set buss compressor combined with lighter channel compression on lead instruments is best IMHO... And the compressor will in the course of doing it's work tighten up the ensemble and apply a shared sonic characteristic across the board, so it makes for great glue without overdoing the reverb... Which you'll notice was a big problem in most of my early mixes.

Anyhow, lots of people swear by minimal compression, some people like it channel to channel, some on the master... And some people refuse to use it at all, preferring the more transparent nature of a fader ride. Personally, for some styles, I love disgusting amounts of compression on individual channels, not so much for the technical reasons (though it still helps) but for all the attitude and smack that the right compressor can lend to a lead vocal, for instance. Check out Spike Stents work on Haim's record "Days Are Gone" where he nearly flattened the dynamics on some of the vocals, only to reintroduce them with fader rides.

How do you like to use compression?
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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#7
That's pretty much how I use mine. Strong on kick/snare/guitars/vox/bass, weaker during quieter parts, or maybe even turn it off during some breaks where something is playing solo, so it sounds natural. I usually end up with a mild compression on the master and a hard limiter so I can compare levels to reference songs, and so I can see what problems may occur during mastering.

Also, I just realized how old this thread really was haha.
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#8
LOL I remember working on this one and thinking it sounded amazing. Listening to it now is painfully embarassing.
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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#9
To narrow stereo field. Too much of backing vocals that sound cheap in chorus. Main vocal is too quiet.
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#10
Lol yeah, this is an old one. Second or third mix I ever tried I think.
I'm grateful for comments and suggestions. Thank you for listening!
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