Motor Tapes - Shores (ZX Mix)

[APZX]

After having done a pretty dense mix not too long ago I decided to give this track a go because I thought it would not be as dense. How wrong was I? Too wrong . . ..

Anyway, the basic idea for this mix was to use the guitars and vocals together to create more of a soundscape. Other than that not much to say.

[Moonwrist]

Hello

For that soundscape part I think you did good job with the bvox in the chorus.
You don't have to make your solo instrument to sound overly big if everything else is bigger but behind that solo.
In verses guitars are really low or behind and only thing up front is the bass.
You could work a bit more with levels in verse compared to levels in chorus.

Now you could also practice your mastering skills and bring your mix closer to usually used levels.
Nothing wrong but there is always something to learn and if you learn what a mastering engineer will come up with that can't be bad thing.

[APZX]

I can see a lot of your points in the first part and they're mostly related to the manner in which I approach an actual mix in general. That is I don't go for a super clean sounding mix. I find them boring to create.

Okay, so about the guitars being low during the verses. That was done on purpose actually and this relates directly the levels compared to the verse compared to the chorus. The reason the guitars are so low during the verse is so that when the chorus comes in and the guitars are louder and more prominently. The other thing is that most of the time the chorus is actually 1.5-3dB louder than the verse and this was done intentionally. To give the chorus more power. Create ebb and flow. Create some contrast. I may have overdone it though. Also for the chorus I tried to envision it more as soundscape rather than a typical chorus. Also, I find it funny that you say the solo guitar is big sounding because it is strictly mono and only has a little bit of an exciter on it. What makes that guitar sound "big" IMO is the layering of all the guitars during that part. To me this kind of layering was my entire approach to the track. As for the bass I'll give that to you. I'm a bass head at heart.

I disagree about you with the Mastering bit. If I wanted it mastered I'd go to a Mastering Engineer. All I did was apply a Limiter at the end to protect the master from clipping. In fact the limiter never gets a chance to limit because the actual mix itself peaks around -14dBFS. I just applied some digital gain before the limiter. Mastering is not my thing.

[Moonwrist]

Well I can understand that something is boring. You could paint the Mona Lisa thousand times and it will get boring at some point

Can't find that I said your guitar sound big?
I said or wrote :"You don't have to make your solo instrument to sound overly big if everything else is bigger but behind that solo."
I don't mean the layering but that the rest of the mix is making/supporting the "illusion" in your mix. But I have to say that my english isn't really good.

And about bass?
If you're a bass head make that your power and strength and not your weakness.
And yes now I have to learn english better or I'm not living for my own standards and advice.

Well I don't have money to master these mixes so I try by myself and at the same time try to learn something new or understand better what I have done in the mix.
Again I compare this to painting. Maybe you have learn to paint with oil painting to canvas and now mastering is kind of same thing as taking a photo shoot of the painting.
Like I had almost always put a multi-band-comp to my master. I tweak it 15 to 30 minutes but almost always I find that comp bypassed mix sound better, but still I keep trying.
At what angle do you put your flash lights ans what adjustments you make for the camera and to what level do you set your tripod.
Yes I know Leonardo and Beethoven didn't have to think this kind of problems but if they have know it would they made something differently?

[APZX]

I guess I don't really understand your comment about the guitar sounding overly big then. Sorry

The thing is when I was mixing it I was trying to think of ways to make that part feel like part of the track. From a sonic perspective that single guitar part really did not fit in all that well in a variety of ways I tried from having heavy FX to not having hardly any at all. I found by almost complete luck that keeping it essentially dry and then with some level adjustment and panning adjustment I could make all the guitars almost come together as one singular sound. I guess that is reason it sounds big, but I honestly do not think it sounds all that big.

Well when I say I'm a basshead it is really in reference to the amount of bass I'll cram into something. For example if the track would be more ideal with say the bass at 7 I'll turn it up 10 because I can and I like bass. The problem I find a lot of people have when I do something like is they do not like it. It is just a difference in opinion on how much bass is too much honestly.

I think I now see your point about Mastering and I still do not agree with it. A Mixers job should solely be to take a recorded track and make it sound as close to the artist's intent. If that meant taking the track and running it right up to the limit then so be it. If there is little direction on how the mix ought to sound then I'll do what sounds good to my ears.

[Moonwrist]

I'm sorry but my English isn't really good.
Maybe this open my thinking / view. Think of you next to mountain everest. Your friend is taking a photo of you and the mountain. He can either stand and you will look small or he can bow and with help of angle of view you will look bigger than the mountain behind you. Not sure if this make any sense but in the first photo the surrounding make you look small and in the other it make you look big.

I understand that one part of mixing is your own taste. Just thinking that if you know something really well don't waste that skill as an excuse.

Not to the limit but rather thinking will he take the picture outside in natural light or inside with artificial light and to what proportion will the picture be taken.
I haven't seen the Mona Lisa in front of my eyes but I have seen pictures of it. The genius who painted that didn't know anything about modern technology but if he had he would probably think about it. I have read some interviews about these big name mixers and many of them had said that they put master comp and master limiter so that artist could have a peek what the final product could be and then bypass it to render that mix for mastering. And by doing that he also know what his own mix could sound after a mastering engineer.

[Voelund]

Monvrist i enjpy your poethic way of describin sound and mixin choices.
certainly a good one the "next to mount everest and photo angle"
Dont bother bout the language, youre doin fine.

[Voelund]

The mix certainly has the loudnes button pressed :-)
I love bass and kick, but I think you are too generous with it.
Actually its more the kick than the bass.
To me it sounds like the kick is separated from the kit, not a part of it.

For the delay after "reach the shore on the other side" ide ide ide ide
Would it be possible to take away the first delay ? I think that will sound really cool.
very good idea that delay.

Some more hi frequencies and more padding wouldnt hurt, I think I played a couple o synths mixin this one, but the guitars can function as such too.

I dont think its a bad mix. I think it can be better !

[APZX]

Moonwrist,
I get where you're coming and it is not that I disagree about what you're saying in a practical sense. What I'm disagreeing about is the notion that it is my responsibility as a mixer to go ahead and master the track. I do not believe it to be my job to do that. After hearing what I can do with a track with my own mastering and then hearing what an actual Mastering Engineer can do to the same track I have really begun to not even bother with it. I can rarely stand putting any kind of dynamics processing on the master at all. I've got one on this mix, it is running a grand total of 1-2dB of GR. It really is not doing a whole lot of anything. That is all that is sitting on the master.

Voelund,
Thanks for the comments!

Well it is rock right? I mean not like the old stuff, but more modern. Though that still makes it rock which to me means I can turn the RMS up a bit more and be fine right? I
I can hear you about the kick and I actually had a lot of debate with myself about it. The problem I was having was making the kick audible. As a result of that I think I did make it not sound wholely as a part of the kit.

With the delay I could remove the first delay pretty easily. It would require putting in a little more automation and just automating the volume of that mixer track really. It would take me a bit to actually do it though. Funny thing about the delays was they came about because I was wanting just a little extra something with those vocals as they sounded a bit too "dry" for me personally. A simple delay throw worked out really well.

I'm not sure what you mean by more padding exactly. I can maybe get the HF, but I think a few of the parts are already way too bright.

[jeremias666]

The kick drum is too disconnected from the rest of the band and the guitars too soft for my taste.