These are very nice tracks, but dang, it was a tough one

[Krabbe]

So after been fumbeling aroung with this for too long now, I've landed here as an initial offset.

The tracks are fine, so obviously they weren't the reason for my ... struggles. I guess it all comes down to me and my lack of studio-work-experience. Obviously I've been listening to this song and wondered how to ... move it to the next level so to say. At one point I seriously considered adding stuff myself, but luckily, I think, I managed to return to a place where reason resides.

Basically, I ended up with just mixing the song and nothing more. It sounds like a band, which, I guess, is the ultimate goal. Meaning no offense to the artist - it's awesome they have made these nice tracks available for chumps like us - I just feel the product is ... undone, which has been the major cause of concern for my part. So this is where I really miss 10+ years working in a studio, because I'm sure there gems to find, just haven't figured out how to yet.

Tips, tricks and comments are much - very much this time - appreciated

Oh yeah, and  applied a fade out in the lasst solo, because the good solo had already been played

Edit v3
I decided to do a complete do-over, because I wasn't really happy with my first edition.

The main thing, I've addressed is gain structure. Basically I've started over and rebuilt my gain structure. Also, I've made some minor EQ corrections. The snare drum was a source of concern, so I've been looking at that as well. In order to achieve minimum phase interference, I've left out the drum room mics, and I've made some alteration on snare verb.

I din't like the feel when the overdrive guitars are introduced, so I've changed that as well. 

I enjoy guitar solos ... when they serve a purpose. I really think that the first solo, not the interlude guitar, which basically is ... sorry, but to me, all it does is occupy space. The first guitar solo is really great, and I enjoy that very much. Thank you, Guitarist. The outro solo is ... well, there are some nice elements in it, but I don't feel that it does that songs any real favours, so I've maintained the fade out. I did, however, try to prolong the fade period.

Lastly, I've fooled around with some FX drums here and there, because I wanted to break up the monotonous energy, I feel the song has. 

It's still a tough one, and ... musically speaking, and this is just my opinion, the arrangement does leave room for stuff to wish for. There are some nice elements, but holisticly, the synergy never appears, which is why I feel the product is unfinished. It's my personal and professional belief that the chord intervals, both realtive to each other, as well as relative to key, and the nature of the vocal arrangement are the main reasons for the struggles this song has caused. I'm not trying to critisize a band, who has been kind enough to let us enjoy their tracks, it's just how it seems from my perspective. I know that these factors aren't changable at this point, but I think it's important, because ... as someone said, you've gotta think ahead in the process ... my point being, here's a product, where it would make sense to ask the artist, if he/she/they are sure that the song is ready for mix, otherwise there's a huge risk that there will be no next step. I'm not trying to be an ass, I just don't see any sense in not trying to cultivate the product potential

Edit v4
This is most definitely my final go at this ... just until I do it again ... 
Basically, all I've done is tiny adjusment on drum levels, raised bass, pulled back guitars a little and rolled off some high end and lowered BGVs.

Thanks all for tips and comments. It was most helpfull.

[Roy]

I only gave it a brief listen because I need a break this stuff. Plus I just woke up. That said, I think it sounds good, in general. There seems to be some phase issues that make the drums feel a little...something. Wide isn't the right adjective. The snare just feels like it's 'everywhere' as opposed to a point in space, if that makes sense. The same with the chorus guitars too but I'm not sure why. They're a little too thick and lower midrangy.
It all works. I don't dislike listening to it. The average listener would probably love it. There are subtle but tasteful effects that support but not get in the way. It's a tricky song for some reason. I wish the chorus went up a level in energy and excitement but I always say that. I wish guitar 2 played more of a part in the mix in the chorus but that's just an issue I have. I have started Guitar 2 Anonymous but I'm the only one who shows up. And it's not very anonymous if I'm being honest. I get the fade, it can be more musical. Hope that helps but I'm probably just rambling.

[Krabbe]

I only gave it a brief listen because I need a break this stuff. Plus I just woke up. That said, I think it sounds good, in general. There seems to be some phase issues that make the drums feel a little...something. Wide isn't the right adjective. The snare just feels like it's 'everywhere' as opposed to a point in space, if that makes sense. The same with the chorus guitars too but I'm not sure why. They're a little too thick and lower midrangy.
It all works. I don't dislike listening to it. The average listener would probably love it. There are subtle but tasteful effects that support but not get in the way. It's a tricky song for some reason. I wish the chorus went up a level in energy and excitement but I always say that. I wish guitar 2 played more of a part in the mix in the chorus but that's just an issue I have. I have started Guitar 2 Anonymous but I'm the only one who shows up. And it's not very anonymous if I'm being honest. I get the fade, it can be more musical. Hope that helps but I'm probably just rambling.

Hey
Thanks for the feedback. You are too kind. It sounds horrible, I'm gonna do a do-over

[Roy]

Ha. I don't think anyone on here would call me kind.

It certainly doesn't sound horrible. It's better than most. I think it sounds prey good. I think there are some things that could be improved/tweaked but it does sound good. It's a fine mix. Any issues I have are technical that most people don't care about.

Definitely give it a do over. Nothing's set in stone. That's pretty much the point of the site and practicing and re-doing mixes are a learning experience. It's always interesting to see what you do differently and if a mix really improves or not. And in the end that's mixing. There's always point where the artist/other band member/loser on a forum gives feedback and critiques and you have to adjust. Sometimes it's close and sometimes it's far off. Sometimes they're way wrong. Anyway, don't let the mix beat you. You're in charge. It's a good mix but if you don't like it that's cool. Faders down and start over.

[Krabbe]

I only gave it a brief listen because I need a break this stuff. Plus I just woke up. That said, I think it sounds good, in general. There seems to be some phase issues that make the drums feel a little...something. Wide isn't the right adjective. The snare just feels like it's 'everywhere' as opposed to a point in space, if that makes sense. The same with the chorus guitars too but I'm not sure why. They're a little too thick and lower midrangy.
It all works. I don't dislike listening to it. The average listener would probably love it. There are subtle but tasteful effects that support but not get in the way. It's a tricky song for some reason. I wish the chorus went up a level in energy and excitement but I always say that. I wish guitar 2 played more of a part in the mix in the chorus but that's just an issue I have. I have started Guitar 2 Anonymous but I'm the only one who shows up. And it's not very anonymous if I'm being honest. I get the fade, it can be more musical. Hope that helps but I'm probably just rambling.

Before I forget, a more musical fade? I'm intrigued ... Please, do tell me more, what do you mean by that?

[Roy]

I forget how the ending exactly goes and how much time you have to work with but I think I felt like the fade was both relatively fast and started right at an apex of the outro solo and seemed to take some of the energy out of it.

[Krabbe]

I forget how the ending exactly goes and how much time you have to work with but I think I felt like the fade was both relatively fast and started right at an apex of the outro solo and seemed to take some of the energy out of it.

I see your point. With that in mind, it's gonna be harder to make the fade-out, because the tambourine dies before the rest of the music, so the fade has to be done before that, and afterall, I think the solo should be allowed for a couple of rounds, so all in all, the fade-out-start-window is kinda narrow, if the fade out curve should be less steep ... nevertheless, I will keep this in mind

[Roy]

Listening to it now it seems like you have enough time for the solo to go 8 bars and the fade to go for another 8 (probably a hair less) and the tambourine is there the whole time. I think musically that would feel more natural. As long as it ends before the coda. If I'm using that word right.

Edit: If you need more time you could start the fade on the 7th bar. The momentum of the solo will hide it so long as the fade is relatively gradual. And remember fades don't have to be a straight line down. In fact they probably shouldn't be.

I'm just thinking out loud. You do whatever works. I don't mean to step on any toes.

[mikej]

Hi!

A good mix overall.

On headphones I initially really noticed the vocal reverb/delay but I think that is because my version is quite dry in comparison. It's sometimes too easy to get used to one's own mix and view any differences as an issue as such. The vocal effect doesn't jump out at me so much on speakers though, and it felt ok on subsequent listens. It might build up behind the vocal just a touch though perhaps, but not by much.

Regarding Roy's comments about the snare... I lined up and level matched my mix and the reference mix with yours to check, and the vocals and snare do sound much wider in your mix in comparison perhaps? Not sure, but it might be simply the reverb being used, or something? Not sure if it is an issue as such, but as they are both in the centre it might be an idea to have wide snare and more centered vocals, or maybe centered snare and wide vocals, so there is something anchored a bit more in the middle?

I don't have any other comments or complaints really. I know I found this really tough for some reason and had a couple of goes at it.

Oh, maybe a longer fadeout could work, and maybe play about with the fadeout curve shape a bit perhaps too? Not sure what the guitarist would think of it though!

Cheers!

[Krabbe]

Hi!

A good mix overall.

On headphones I initially really noticed the vocal reverb/delay but I think that is because my version is quite dry in comparison.  It's sometimes too easy to get used to one's own mix and view any differences as an issue as such.  The vocal effect doesn't jump out at me so much on speakers though, and it felt ok on subsequent listens.  It might build up behind the vocal just a touch though perhaps, but not by much.

Regarding Roy's comments about the snare... I lined up and level matched my mix and the reference mix with yours to check, and the vocals and snare do sound much wider in your mix in comparison perhaps?  Not sure, but it might be simply the reverb being used, or something?  Not sure if it is an issue as such, but as they are both in the centre it might be an idea to have wide snare and more centered vocals, or maybe centered snare and wide vocals, so there is something anchored a bit more in the middle?

I don't have any other comments or complaints really.  I know I found this really tough for some reason and had a couple of goes at it.

Oh, maybe a longer fadeout could work, and maybe play about with the fadeout curve shape a bit perhaps too?  Not sure what the guitarist would think of it though!

Cheers!

Thanks for listening and for your comments. You too are too kind. I am really not happy about this first edition.

Anyhow, I always keep the snare dead center, so I'm guessing that the placement issues is caused by bleed in the overheads. yeah, I got a bit carried away, when I had to determine how much cybal I wanted in the mix ...

I don't think that the vox delay causes too much build up behind the vocal becuase it's a rather short delay, so there's nothing running completely wild behind the vocal, if that makes any sense.

I haven't heard the reference mix - I seldom do, because I wanna go into a mix with a clean slate, and  because I don't wanna do a replica of the reference mix - I did, however, listen to your mix and a couple of others, who all ... let's just say, know what they are doing, for inspiration after this first failure. I am currently working on a v2, which I hope will be ... well, not more like the ref. mix, but just something I will be more pleased with.

Again, thanks for your time