Update: 10-27 - David Tyo's - Long Way Home - Final Tweaks

[Mixinthecloud]

I have really enjoyed David's work which has been presented here previously. He is a great singer/song writer and engineer.

Over-all, this recording was excellent although there were some real issues with vocal punches on the lead track. Matching intensities, timbre and levels was a bit of a challenge. Resolution of those issues was two stages of compression and lots of automation. The lead vocals were very dry and needed both ambient touches and an engaging and distinctive hall. Those were fun to create.

True to my love of big drums I established an explosive snare placed in a big room. Overheads, toms and kick were also spiced with the same sprinkling of hall reverb. Percussion too. As a matter of fact, the drum hall was used on most every instrument which I feel glued things together pretty nicely.

It was pretty easy to establish good location for the various guitars and keyboards which all had great tone and content. A bit of top end EQ on the acoustics had them sitting pretty. I added some trickery to the bass which filled out the bottom very nicely. The heart-beat cried out for either a long echo or something as it felt to have ended prematurely in the phrase. I chose to copy the wave form and tailor the levels to mimic a trailing echo. A touch of the drum hall was added as well. And there was an ugly transient at the top of the organ after the heart-beat break which required some trickery too.

True to David's wonderful composition skills and vocal talents the backgrounds added the finishing touches on the undeniable emotional content of this great song and I hope I did the arrangement well with my vocal treatment.

I spent a few days bouncing out mixes to listen to later and to give me ears a chance to rest between listens. It is very easy to second guess yourself especially when this is a contest song. I am hoping I will not revisit this mix as I find too much fiddling ends up spoiling the emotional content and power of the song. so here it is for review.

I hope you enjoy my take on another of David's great compositions.

Thanks,
mITc

-11.5 LUFS


David Tyo - Long Way Home - Pass 4a
More detail in the guitars, bigger vocals and more automation on the over all dynamics of the song have been added to enhance the emotional content of the piece and performance.

David Tyo - Long Way Home - Pass 7a
Modified the drum room. Although it is still big the character has changed some.
Made some minor vocal arrangement changes to try an add some more emotional build up.
Made some ensemble changes to clarify instrumental parts.

-11.2 LUFS; 8.6 LU

David Tyo - Long Way Home - Pass 8
I think I finally got the vocals right. Present and full and sitting better.
That clarity induced a few other minor tweeks, I believe all for the better.

David Tyo - Long Way Home - Pass 9
Re-imaged the guitars for a touch more dynamics and clarity and executed some minor arrangement changes on the voice. Cleaned up the bass some too.

-13.4 LUFS; 8.6 LU

David Tyo - Long Way Home - Pass 10
Just some final tweaks across the board

-11.5 LUFS; 9.5 LU

What do you think? Thanks.

It's been a real pleasure to work on this wonderful composition. The arrangement and instrument choices and voiceings are beautifully presented. If I had one thing to say it would be about some lyric choices to enrich the emotional context.

[Christoff555]

I really like you're 4a mix the best, and I quite enjoy the way you brought the vocal further forward in the mix. It seems the song is very intimate, almost tragic, so the vocal is, and should be, front and center. I also like what you did with the guitars and the general balance you've chosen. It's a very nice mix, indeed. Good luck!

[Mixinthecloud]

I really like you're 4a mix the best, and I quite enjoy the way you brought the vocal further forward in the mix. It seems the song is very intimate, almost tragic, so the vocal is, and should be, front and center. I also like what you did with the guitars and the general balance you've chosen. It's a very nice mix, indeed. Good luck!

Your comments are right on the money for this tragic and emotional type of song. Thank you very much.

[thedon]

Lovely balanced Mix MITC sounds great , translates well on my monitors ,Nice work with the vocal effects they add a nice feel and emotion to the song.
One personal preference thing that comes to mind while listening is the decay of the reverb could be a shorter around 600 hz and above or maybe just needs some eq but not a big deal .
Well Done

[Roy]

I'm listening to mix 7a. It's a very good mix. I like all of the little bits of the band that you've brought out and highlighted. I have some minor thoughts.

I'm not a fan of the vocal effects, at least as I notice them in the verse. The effects are cool but seem a little distracting from the vocal and I'm not sure they actually add anything to the track. I think the vocal can come up/be more in the spotlight and maybe could use some more automation.

The instruments in this track tend to exist in the upper mids (?) and there feels like a slight bit of a traffic jam up there. And since there's so much energy up there it feels top heavy and maybe a tad thin. The guitar solo in particular seems harsh.

I'm missing the BgVs in the 1st verse but that could just be I'm so used to them being there.

I think that's everything. All minor points, it sounds really good. Good job.

[Mixinthecloud]

I'm listening to mix 7a. It's a very good mix. I like all of the little bits of the band that you've brought out and highlighted. I have some minor thoughts.

I'm not a fan of the vocal effects, at least as I notice them in the verse. The effects are cool but seem a little distracting from the vocal and I'm not sure they actually add anything to the track. I think the vocal can come up/be more in the spotlight and maybe could use some more automation.

The instruments in this track tend to exist in the upper mids (?) and there feels like a slight bit of a traffic jam up there. And since there's so much energy up there it feels top heavy and maybe a tad thin. The guitar solo in particular seems harsh.

I'm missing the BgVs in the 1st verse but that could just be I'm so used to them being there.

I think that's everything. All minor points, it sounds really good. Good job.

Roy,
These are excellent comments.

You are quite right. I do tend to fill my upper-mids. I have been operating under the influence of a pair of Bearfoot MM27 Micro-Mains. Besides being a brilliant monitor solution, these have a selection of presets which includes emulation of NS 10Ms* and their idea of "hi-fi". The latter scoops out that upper-mid or adds a loudness contour around that area. I found that when I sent the stereo mix through board channels with API 550s I ended up scooping out the same area on the flat MM27s. That kind of indicates several things. Either I'm deaf, or my playback monitors tend to be on the "hi-fi" side (or both) and that you, my friend, have accurate monitors. Admittedly, mine lean towards "hi-fi". I do find however, my mix definition is better on mobile devices. So a quandary ensues. You can guess the rest of the angst...

The missing BGVs in the first chorus is intentional. I felt they added too much energy too soon in the song so I tried to emphasize the lead singer's intimacy instead. May not have worked...

There are so many dynamic moves on the lead vocal I may have gotten lost in the weeds. I felt I was battling issues for punched vocal phrases which have varying intensities and slight EQ changes too. At least that's what I was hearing through the verses. Some of my changes were done with wave form editing and others with volume envelopes since the overall phrase may have been lifted. Wha...What??? yeah. So yes; a bit lost in the weeds with so many dynamics moves. I will revisit vocal phrases in need of a better dynamic statement.

Thank, RM.. Good stuff.

* The NS-10M emulation is uncanny, if not unnerving!

PS: How many Mixers audition mixes on mobile phones?

[Mixinthecloud]

Lovely balanced Mix MITC sounds great , translates well on my monitors ,Nice work with the vocal effects they add a nice feel and emotion to the song.
One personal preference thing that comes to mind while listening is the decay of the reverb could be a shorter around 600 hz and above or maybe just needs some eq but not a big deal .
Well Done

Don,
Thanks for the kudos. brother. I have posted up another mix (pass 7a) which has a more concise reverb decay, but it is not on the areas you suggested the 600Hz low pass for!

I will play around with that and see if I can understand the direction you are suggesting with it.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Roy]

I'm listening to mix 7a. It's a very good mix. I like all of the little bits of the band that you've brought out and highlighted. I have some minor thoughts.

I'm not a fan of the vocal effects, at least as I notice them in the verse. The effects are cool but seem a little distracting from the vocal and I'm not sure they actually add anything to the track. I think the vocal can come up/be more in the spotlight and maybe could use some more automation.

The instruments in this track tend to exist in the upper mids (?) and there feels like a slight bit of a traffic jam up there. And since there's so much energy up there it feels top heavy and maybe a tad thin. The guitar solo in particular seems harsh.

I'm missing the BgVs in the 1st verse but that could just be I'm so used to them being there.

I think that's everything. All minor points, it sounds really good. Good job.

Roy,
These are excellent comments.

You are quite right. I do tend to fill my upper-mids. I have been operating under the influence of a pair of Bearfoot MM27 Micro-Mains. Besides being a brilliant monitor solution, these have a selection of presets which includes emulation of NS 10Ms* and their idea of "hi-fi". The latter scoops out that upper-mid or adds a loudness contour around that area. I found that when I sent the stereo mix through board channels with API 550s I ended up scooping out the same area on the flat MM27s. That kind of indicates several things. Either I'm deaf, or my playback monitors tend to be on the "hi-fi" side (or both) and that you, my friend, have accurate monitors. Admittedly, mine lean towards "hi-fi". I do find however, my mix definition is better on mobile devices. So a quandary ensues. You can guess the rest of the angst...

The missing BGVs in the first chorus is intentional. I felt they added too much energy too soon in the song so I tried to emphasize the lead singer's intimacy instead. May not have worked...

There are so many dynamic moves on the lead vocal I may have gotten lost in the weeds. I felt I was battling issues for punched vocal phrases which have varying intensities and slight EQ changes too. At least that's what I was hearing through the verses. Some of my changes were done with wave form editing and others with volume envelopes since the overall phrase may have been lifted. Wha...What??? yeah. So yes; a bit lost in the weeds with so many dynamics moves. I will revisit vocal phrases in need of a better dynamic statement.

Thank, RM.. Good stuff.

* The NS-10M emulation is uncanny, if not unnerving!

PS: How many Mixers audition mixes on mobile phones?

Yeah, the punches on this song are annoying. I still hear the double breaths on a punch in the first verse.

I will say one thing that I've been curious to try is reverse compression/vocal riding. I'm literally trying it at the moment on this vocal. Essentially you take the track, reverse it, compress that, and reverse it back. So far it hasn't worked ideally with compression but I do have the Waves Vocal Rider and since it's a little slower and adapts to the input is seems like it might do the job on this track. At least, getting it to a better starting point. It feels like a more gentle way of compressing the track. We'll see. I've kept wanting to try it before but Logic is a bit of a pain when it comes to reversing tracks. Too many steps.

I like NS10s. Back at the studio I worked at they had Genelecs and NS10s but we always used the Genelecs. Mostly because when you switched to the NS10s the mix sounded horrible. But mixes weren't really translating. Then I started a mix on the NS10s and got it sound ing good and it still sounded good on the Genelecs. I've not heard of the Bearfoot MM27 Micro-Mains but they sound interesting. At least, if I can ever afford to graduate from earbuds.

[Mixinthecloud]

I'm listening to mix 7a. It's a very good mix. I like all of the little bits of the band that you've brought out and highlighted. I have some minor thoughts.

I'm not a fan of the vocal effects, at least as I notice them in the verse. The effects are cool but seem a little distracting from the vocal and I'm not sure they actually add anything to the track. I think the vocal can come up/be more in the spotlight and maybe could use some more automation.

The instruments in this track tend to exist in the upper mids (?) and there feels like a slight bit of a traffic jam up there. And since there's so much energy up there it feels top heavy and maybe a tad thin. The guitar solo in particular seems harsh.

I'm missing the BgVs in the 1st verse but that could just be I'm so used to them being there.

I think that's everything. All minor points, it sounds really good. Good job.

Roy,
These are excellent comments.

You are quite right. I do tend to fill my upper-mids. I have been operating under the influence of a pair of Bearfoot MM27 Micro-Mains. Besides being a brilliant monitor solution, these have a selection of presets which includes emulation of NS 10Ms* and their idea of "hi-fi". The latter scoops out that upper-mid or adds a loudness contour around that area. I found that when I sent the stereo mix through board channels with API 550s I ended up scooping out the same area on the flat MM27s. That kind of indicates several things. Either I'm deaf, or my playback monitors tend to be on the "hi-fi" side (or both) and that you, my friend, have accurate monitors. Admittedly, mine lean towards "hi-fi". I do find however, my mix definition is better on mobile devices. So a quandary ensues. You can guess the rest of the angst...

The missing BGVs in the first chorus is intentional. I felt they added too much energy too soon in the song so I tried to emphasize the lead singer's intimacy instead. May not have worked...

There are so many dynamic moves on the lead vocal I may have gotten lost in the weeds. I felt I was battling issues for punched vocal phrases which have varying intensities and slight EQ changes too. At least that's what I was hearing through the verses. Some of my changes were done with wave form editing and others with volume envelopes since the overall phrase may have been lifted. Wha...What??? yeah. So yes; a bit lost in the weeds with so many dynamics moves. I will revisit vocal phrases in need of a better dynamic statement.

Thank, RM.. Good stuff.

* The NS-10M emulation is uncanny, if not unnerving!

PS: How many Mixers audition mixes on mobile phones?

Yeah, the punches on this song are annoying. I still hear the double breaths on a punch in the first verse.

I will say one thing that I've been curious to try is reverse compression/vocal riding. I'm literally trying it at the moment on this vocal. Essentially you take the track, reverse it, compress that, and reverse it back. So far it hasn't worked ideally with compression but I do have the Waves Vocal Rider and since it's a little slower and adapts to the input is seems like it might do the job on this track. At least, getting it to a better starting point. It feels like a more gentle way of compressing the track. We'll see. I've kept wanting to try it before but Logic is a bit of a pain when it comes to reversing tracks. Too many steps.

I like NS10s. Back at the studio I worked at they had Genelecs and NS10s but we always used the Genelecs. Mostly because when you switched to the NS10s the mix sounded horrible. But mixes weren't really translating. Then I started a mix on the NS10s and got it sound ing good and it still sounded good on the Genelecs. I've not heard of the Bearfoot MM27 Micro-Mains but they sound interesting. At least, if I can ever afford to graduate from earbuds.

Haha! NS-10s are kind of the new horror-tones so if you can get a mix to sound good on them then it will sound good in lots of places.

The Bearfoots are one of the premier mid-field studio monitors in the last 5 years. They have a very innovative low frequency driver which completely eliminates cabinet resonances. It is deep, fast and clean and you now see it on a lot of mid-field choices.

That reverse compression is an interesting concept. Not sure how it would translate to the vocals here but would like to hear it.

[Roy]

That reverse compression is an interesting concept. Not sure how it would translate to the vocals here but would like to hear it.

The intent is to have a gentler attack and more even compression. It's not reacting to the initial attack of the signal but the trail. In trying it today with vocal rider the result was a more leveled vocal signal with little or no need for automation. The other times I've missed this I've tried compression to help even things out but it never worked right. It was either still too dynamic or the compression was too noticeable. Automation was necessary but a bit laborious.
Though I'm just casually messing with the idea at the moment. It's not that interesting sound wise but it seems useful in really dynamic tracks such as this one. I'd be curious to try it again with different compressors. I'm not sure what would work best.