Adam Buckley - Drag Me Down [OctoOnFire]

[Monk]

It's about the arrangement of the song. Not every tracks is supposed to be PRESENT.. or IN YOUR FACE. If you turn up 90 tracks of sounds well then all you get is noise. But if you carefully analyze it and do good work with the dynamics of those tracks then you can work with your headroom.

Well, I'm only discussing this song and arrangement.

There are about 16 tracks banging away during the introduction. In your mix, for example, it clips and distorts because of overload, and it's not the only place. This is a good example of what I'm talking about.

I guess you can say the more tracks you can handle and still be able to put a good mix the better you get a mixing.

Not much good if it's clipping though.

Personally, I think FWIW, that developing a skill which recognises what works and what doesn't (musically, emotionally, spectrally, etc), then dealing with it accordingly in the vision, is better than one that can't tell if it was included simply to give options at mixdown.

[Shul]

Monk I master my songs and sometimes I overwork the limiter. Most of my clipping comes from that and well I'm guilty at that. Getting better with the songs. Didn't really hear clipping in my mix I have to check that out lol.

In a real life scenario you will get the tracks that are supposed to be there. The moment to play with ideas is in the pre production of the songs (with some exceptions). I doubt a producer or an artist would give you tracks that are "removable if you don't like it". In this song there are not that many tracks and the ones that are there in my opinion are there because the artist intended them to. Some of your mixes are experimental and that's cool because you can do what you want with the tracks and the artist never has to know but in a real scenario the tracks given to you for mix down are tracks the artist wants in.

I agree there are some exceptions but there would have to be a good reason for it. In this case these tracks are not that dense in musical arrangement to make me think "I have to remove these tracks". At least I did not find a track that would make me say that. Did you?

[Monk]

Monk I master my songs and sometimes I overwork the limiter. Most of my clipping comes from that and well I'm guilty at that. Getting better with the songs. Didn't really hear clipping in my mix I have to check that out lol.

If you miss it on the master buss, there's every possibility that you are missing it in the mix as well, like feeding a hot input into a plugin that can't take it and so distorts. If you were in my studio, you'd only make the mistake once

In a real life scenario you will get the tracks that are supposed to be there.

That depends if an impartial mixing engineer gets hold of something that wasn't professionally arranged. With bottomless hard drives and no studio time billed, everyone over records pretty much simply because they can. Even in a professional arrangement, good ideas can still come out later on at the mix!

There's also no reason why a competent engineer can't overdub, if the song would benefit. Depends how religiously flexible one's attitudes are. Oh, and the budget!

I doubt a producer or an artist would give you tracks that are "removable if you don't like it".

The mixing process (including the vision)nearly always reveals opportunities the artist might well have missed by being too close to their baby. If you take a "Yes sir" approach, the impact on the listener might be greatly eroded. Are OK with that?

Sometimes, even a choice mute can make one hell of a difference for the better. But if you don't spot opportunities, or worse, take the "Yes sir" approach, everyone misses out, including the consumer and worse, the artist themselves.

Are you mixing to help the artist with their creative processes, or help them fail because you lack impartiality? The only rule should be that the artist or the record company, has the final say.

In this song there are not that many tracks and the ones that are there in my opinion are there because the artist intended them to.

You can mix it with that idea in mind if you like

In this case these tracks are not that dense in musical arrangement to make me think "I have to remove these tracks".

It's not merely the density that poses a problem, but the way the instruments interact with one another (or not, as the case may be), as well as the emotional contributions (or not, as the case may be). THis can give a cluttered or somewhat chaotic delivery if not corrected somehow.

Remember, we are not good as a species at multitasking, especially when it comes to listening. Could be why you missed the clipping.

I'm in the studio tomorrow. If I remember, I'll post my vision up (it's not a remix per se). Then you can jump on me from a great height

---------sorry Octo for the somewhat detached discussion. Nevertheless I think it may still be relevant in a global way.