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Adam Buckley - Drag Me Down [OctoOnFire]
#1
Hi everyone,

Finally I've decided to try mixing this song. The tracks are really well produced, apart from some questionable use of autotune.

I used some songs from The Gazette as reference from the beginning, trying to aim for their excellent production. It's big and loud (that was my intention, anyway Smile ).
Quote:[REVISION 1 NOTES]

- Went back to the mix to work on the toms a little. Used some EQ and transient shaping, very subtle. Took a little bit of 100Hz-ish away from the reverb.
- On the verses, I worked on the piano to make it a little less fat. I believe it was overwhelming the sides and even creating some unwanted distortion.
- On the Mix bus: I used TDR NOVA GE. I used some dynamic EQ around 300Hz (II), a little higher Q around 500 HZ (III) and even more subtle around 800HZ (IV), which I believe brought up the background vocals a little bit, as a secondary effect to clearing up the mids. Very low ratios, 1.5 to 1 or less. Then, I also added some highs and lows, using the dynEQ function to keep them under control (I and VI). Here's a screenshot of the TDR:

[Image: TDR-Buss.png]

Quote:REVISION 2 NOTES:

Fixed a problem in the master buss with the clipper and limiter not being set up properly and working too hard, clipping at some points

I hope you enjoy listening. Any comments, questions and notes are really appreciated, the feedback here is invaluable!

Cheers,

OoF


.mp3    AdamBuckley_DragMeDown_OoF_v1.4m_MP3.mp3 --  (Download: 7.62 MB)


.mp3    AdamBuckley_DragMeDown_OoF_v1.4m_Rev1_MP3.mp3 --  (Download: 7.62 MB)


.mp3    AdamBuckley_DragMeDown_OoF_v1.4m_Rev2_mp3.mp3 --  (Download: 7.62 MB)


ITB Setup: Reaper, Airwindows, IK Multimedia TR5, XLN AD2 ATrigger and RC-20, Waves.
Monitoring: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII, Behritone, Sennheiser HD 650. Semi-treated room.

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#2
Hello there it's a solid mix but here are my observations.

*your balances are good. The mix works pretty good the way it is
*the kick has a good punch but I'd like more of a type writer feel to it. Having said that is mostly personal taste. I just like fat sounding kicks and the type writer eq works good for that. Never the less it feels punchy and tight.
*the reverb on the toms are really clouding it up for me. There is very Lil definition on them. They feel like they have a thin wall in front of them that keeps them from delivering a more raw power on the mix. The same goes for the snare.. Perhaps you did too much ever for them and it does not help. However if you cut some 500hz there it could fix it somewhat.
*i like the guitar tones they sound good in the mix.
*voice eq is good.. At least in relation to the mix.
*back voice is very subtle.. Would have liked more volume on them as they play an important part in creating excitement for the mix. They sound too soft and probably are soled in reverb, no?
*bass is good
*i like that you made those acoustic guitars heard in the end... Most mixes here didn't.
*that ending though you could cut one of the rhythm guitars make it shorter to match the ending on both guitars and just Cross fade the cut on the one guitar. That's what I did on my mix.

Overall I think your mix is very busy on the 300hz area.. And could benefit from a master bus eq cut on the 100-500hz a Lil.

Hope this helps keep it up.
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#3
(13-12-2018, 08:14 PM)Shul Wrote: Hello there it's a solid mix but here are my observations.
...

Thanks for the feedback Shul,

Regarding the downsides of the mix, the toms were bugging me and I'll go back to them, so thanks for giving me some hints on what to listen for.
About the clutter around 300Hz, it happens to me a lot. I don't know if it is bad mixing decisions or something to do with my room because it keeps happening. I used more reverb than usual here, so I'll go back and check out if I can pinpoint some problems before doing stuff on the master bus.

ITB Setup: Reaper, Airwindows, IK Multimedia TR5, XLN AD2 ATrigger and RC-20, Waves.
Monitoring: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII, Behritone, Sennheiser HD 650. Semi-treated room.

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#4
Some changes in revision 1, details added to the first post. I didn't want to go into the kick because it was good enough for me and could mess with the whole balance of the mix. Also didn't touch the ending of the guitars since it has no impact on the mix itself, and that would be a quick edit in case the producer/artist would request it.

I'm very happy with how the mix came out after these adjustments. Thanks Shul for the feedback once again.
ITB Setup: Reaper, Airwindows, IK Multimedia TR5, XLN AD2 ATrigger and RC-20, Waves.
Monitoring: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII, Behritone, Sennheiser HD 650. Semi-treated room.

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#5
Hey Octo
Nice Job on the revision, opened it up more, sounds smoother.
Toms sound killer, Piano sits better and sounds solid.
Enjoyed the listen
Cheers
KSmile
Gear:-Zoom R24 interface, controller - Cubase/Reaper - Assorted Waves, Airwindows suite, AKG K240 Cans, Event TR5 reference monitors.
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#6
I disagree on the toms. They are clipping pretty bad. did you use a limiter on them?
Exaple at 1:38 and at 2:25
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#7
Yep, I missed that, cranked the monitors up and definitely noticeable.
good ears Shul.
Cheers
KSmile
Gear:-Zoom R24 interface, controller - Cubase/Reaper - Assorted Waves, Airwindows suite, AKG K240 Cans, Event TR5 reference monitors.
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#8
I'm afraid the clipping is coming mostly from the bass (listen to 1:49)

Probably due to the setup I'm using emulating an analog board... I'll have to get familiar with it and find the proper gain staging. AW plugins usually allow you to abuse them further than other brands, past the point of distortion, so I think it could be a compressor that is now receiving more signal than it was before, so it's acting up like that.

[EDIT]

Okay so I went back to the session. It wasn't the toms or bass specifically. There was no problem until the very last stage of the master bus. The problem was the way I was using ADClip and Stealth Limiter. They were badly set up and, of course, the toms and bass were making them work harder than they should. I'll take a mental note for the future, in these type of mixes, when you go for loudness and low dynamic range, you need to keep everything under control right from the tracks, not letting the stuff in the master buss do all, or most of the work. Especially with elements that have a lot of energy such as toms and bass. I also realized that stuff that lives in the higher mid range such as the voice and the overheads, can get ugly when cranked up this way.
The song I was referencing has a dynamic range of 6dB, sometimes 4dB. It's amazing how they can still make it sound clear, open, clip-free and punchy. Trying to emulate this is a nice challenge and learning experience.

I'll update the attachment in the main post.
ITB Setup: Reaper, Airwindows, IK Multimedia TR5, XLN AD2 ATrigger and RC-20, Waves.
Monitoring: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII, Behritone, Sennheiser HD 650. Semi-treated room.

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#9
(16-12-2018, 11:50 AM)OctopusOnFire Wrote: The song I was referencing has a dynamic range of 6dB, sometimes 4dB. It's amazing how they can still make it sound clear, open, clip-free and punchy. Trying to emulate this is a nice challenge and learning experience.

Are you talking DR values here?

At least they don't have 60 tracks to cram between two speakers, or even one speaker in the case of mono. For every track you add, you are losing potential headroom. The word reference is a bit like comparing apples with organges, I'd say.

Personally, I'd take a few steps back and ask some simple questions, like why there are so many tracks to begin with and what value each track brings to the song.
"Nearly half of all teenagers and young adults (12-35 years old) in middle- and high-income countries are exposed to unsafe levels of sound from the use of personal  audio  devices": https://tinyurl.com/6xeeahc5 Read my bio.
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#10
(19-12-2018, 09:53 PM)Monk Wrote: At least they don't have 60 tracks to cram between two speakers, or even one speaker in the case of mono. For every track you add, you are losing potential headroom. The word reference is a bit like comparing apples with organges, I'd say.

Tell that to the engineer who mixed this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2u6zVB3Djc


I mixed the song "Howlin - Ambersky" with over 90 tracks in my daw and it was actually loud enough. It's about the arrangement of the song. Not every tracks is supposed to be PRESENT.. or IN YOUR FACE. If you turn up 90 tracks of sounds well then all you get is noise. But if you carefully analyze it and do good work with the dynamics of those tracks then you can work with your headroom.

I guess you can say the more tracks you can handle and still be able to put a good mix the better you get a mixing.

Again the control of dynamics in that song I posted is all credits for the engineer who mixed that song. It's daaaang hard to deal with dynamics in a live recording situation.

By the way the revision sounds good now. There are some eq changes I would do but you fixed the clipping. Wink


Here is anotherone I found with tons of tracks but a beast outcome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ews47ZKMRI and also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SMGccd0N8c
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