31-07-2018, 11:46 PM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2018, 03:54 AM by spoonfcrs.)
DAW: Reaper
Plugins used: Fabfilter ProQ2, Slate (VTM, VBC, Virtual Mix Rack, everything), Drum Leveler, Wilkinson Debleeder, GGate, Red3 Comp, EZDrummer for triggers on kick and toms.
This is my first time mixing real drums, so I'm really not sure how you guys tame bleed in the overheads but, especially with that loud ass HH which was remarkably quiet on the HH channel. EDIT: oh, by triggering. lol.
Anyway, I'll go through my whole process if anyone asks, but here's a first attempt.
v2 saw the lpf brought back on the guitar bus to about 8k. took a little out of the 5-6k range.
triggered replacements using EZ for kick and toms, because the toms in this just weren't super fun for me. i'm still not quite sure how to make the overheads sound better. i feel like the cymbals only show through sometimes.
i also took a liberty with a part in the vocals and added some hopefully subtlefx.
v4: dialed vocal presence back a bunch because it was harsh to listen to. added some light ambience with ezmix to the vocals and used automation with delay on a few parts that i wanted to sound bigger.
did an air boost at about 16k per theneverscene's recommend.
fiddled with the drums more.
guitars, i messed with the faders and tried to subtract some more harshness. they're still too dark for my tastes but they don't hurt the ear anymore, i don't think.
v4a i'm bad at low end.
v4b i'm BAD at low end. today i learned about serial compression bass tracks. messed with levels and bass.
Guitars are overpowering the mix in my opinion (opposite of yours of my mix ), they could be quieter and EQ'ed some more to kill some harsh 4k-ish frequencies.
Snare and toms could use some more click/high-end, but if you're sticking to no samples on this one the bleed might kill you.
(01-08-2018, 01:04 AM)kunek Wrote: Guitars are overpowering the mix in my opinion (opposite of yours of my mix ), they could be quieter and EQ'ed some more to kill some harsh 4k-ish frequencies.
Snare and toms could use some more click/high-end, but if you're sticking to no samples on this one the bleed might kill you.
I love the kick, it fits that genre I think.
aw man, i actually bosoted a little in the upper range to bring them out. would you described the guitars as genuinely fatiguing or personal preference too much?
and i don't disagree about the the snare and toms. the tom tracking on this just wasn't super awesome so i was unsure of how to fix it.
Yeah, I think the guitars are kinda too much objectively. Do you mix on headphones only? If so, that might be a problem, because you're overhyping stereo elements and bringing them out too much.
For fixing them, try to notch out some frequencies in 3k-5k range, find that fizzy nonsense and kill it. You don't want to make them dark, but clean them up a little bit.
(01-08-2018, 01:10 AM)kunek Wrote: Yeah, I think the guitars are kinda too much objectively. Do you mix on headphones only? If so, that might be a problem, because you're overhyping stereo elements and bringing them out too much.
For fixing them, try to notch out some frequencies in 3k-5k range, find that fizzy nonsense and kill it. You don't want to make them dark, but clean them up a little bit.
not at all. on monitors.
when you say overyhyping stereo elements, can you elaborate a bit for me? i didn't widen anything stereo wise, and the only panning i did was for the guitars. 100 75 75 100- but i've always hard panned for metal.
the drum tracks, from a stereo perspective, i just left alone.
Sorry, you talked about headphones in other thread, I thought that might be the issue.
Overhyping stereo elements = making wide elements (like guitars, toms) too loud/too bright. I don't think that's necessarily the problem here, just be careful when you want to bring the guitars out like that, it might backfire, because they become kinda fatiguing in the long run.
(01-08-2018, 01:19 AM)kunek Wrote: Sorry, you talked about headphones in other thread, I thought that might be the issue.
Overhyping stereo elements = making wide elements (like guitars, toms) too loud/too bright. I don't think that's necessarily the problem here, just be careful when you want to bring the guitars out like that, it might backfire, because they become kinda fatiguing in the long run.
cool man, I'll keep that in mind.- I'm gonna try a v2 a bit later on after I've given my ears a break. i think i'm gonna take a page out of your book and sample the toms as well.
01-08-2018, 07:30 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2018, 07:34 PM by TheNeverScene.)
Hi!
I think V2 is a step in the right direction, but there is something about the openness of V1 that I like, so maybe find a middle ground.
Also, looks like you used some triggering.....sounds like some hits are missing in spots (but that roll at towards the end sounds killer!) If you go that route, use the overheads as a guide (which you probably already know). Not sure how you set up your triggers, but when things are recorded so wonky (but not the wonkiest by any stretch ha), you may need to edit out everything but each tom hit on the trigger tracks to compensate for the weak tom hits and strong everything else hits :/.....even going so far as using extreme volume automation between hits. Sometimes just using filtering on the triggers isn't enough and ALWAYS a PITA though!
Really dug that little vocal repeater thing.....reminded me of some Static-X for some reason.
I think V2 is a step in the right direction, but there is something about the openness of V1 that I like, so maybe find a middle ground.
Also, looks like you used some triggering.....sounds like some hits are missing in spots (but that roll at towards the end sounds killer!) If you go that route, use the overheads as a guide (which you probably already know). Not sure how you set up your triggers, but when things are recorded so wonky (but not the wonkiest by any stretch ha), you may need to edit out everything but each tom hit on the trigger tracks to compensate for the weak tom hits and strong everything else hits :/.....even going so far as using extreme volume automation between hits. Sometimes just using filtering on the triggers isn't enough and ALWAYS a PITA though!
Really dug that little vocal repeater thing.....reminded me of some Static-X for some reason.
Just my 1 1/2 cents.
So- for the triggers I actually used reagate, sending to midi every time it opened, with a pretty fast hold and tight threshold. listening back, i'm not hearing a lot of missed hits, or the toms just aren't being picked up. like for example on tom 5, i'm not convinced anything gets played there. i think overheads would be hard to use as triggers for this gate method because of how loud the highhats are. but, using them as a guide, i'm not sure where i missed. i'll look at the waveforms when i get home.
before the gate trigger in the chain, i ggated really hard and used debleeder so that only toms were coming through and some snare transients if they were played quickly after the tom hits. so no automation was needed because i was hard gating. unless i'm dumb- do people still automate with hard gates? I don't know. i don't do real drums often.
and yeah i actually preferred v1 to v2. i like really bright guitars as long as they don't hurt the ears. but, listening to the original after the first comment in this thread, i decided to darken them up.
01-08-2018, 09:00 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2018, 09:01 PM by TheNeverScene.)
It was mainly the tom hits when the break down started that I meant "some spots" where they sound sort of flammy, so I should have been more specific.
As for overheads as a reference, I meant just that...a reference lol not triggering from them, but listening during the more intricate parts to try and figure out what is actually being hit. As for the tom tracks, pretty sure he only hit 3 out 5. As for gates, I do think people still automate at least the thresholds when needed, especially when the hits are all over the place. The volume automation thing I was referring to, and since you use Reaper as well, it's not really automation. I'll use the split tool in conjunction with the fade drag as a faux automation.....half the time, it seems quicker to me than chasing around a gate to be used for triggering.
I didn't use any triggers. I did use the supplied kick sample just for the top end because I felt like the kick attack got extremely lost in spots, but that was it. I'm probably in the minority around here, but I tend to look at mix practice as....well....mix practice! haha...so I try to figure out how to get the most out of what was given. My entire approach on these drums was pretty much inverted due to what appeared to be very poor mic placement, and I've been all over the place when it came to the guitars.....sometimes punky raw, sometimes metally metal.....the cycle continues.
Like I said before, somewhere between V1 and V2 is gonna be your sweet spot. It might just be some air boost on the master while keeping the kick in check.
), they could be quieter and EQ'ed some more to kill some harsh 4k-ish frequencies.