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The woodworm Song
#1
I'm normally pretty quick at tackling these songs, but I somehow missed this one. Better late than never!
Thanks for listening

Update. Mix #2 added, based on Monks critique. Hopefully for better.Big Grin

Update. Mix #3 added, A slightly fuller sound, with a tighter reverb and controlled tail


.mp3    DonCamilloChoir_WoodwormSong_Dangerous#1.mp3 --  (Download: 5.54 MB)


.mp3    DonCamilloChoir_WoodwormSong_Dangerous#2.mp3 --  (Download: 5.54 MB)


.mp3    DonCamilloChoir_WoodwormSong_Dangerous#3.mp3 --  (Download: 5.54 MB)


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#2
Hey Dave

Nice mix!! .. I imagine everything on mixing a choir piece is placement of the singers, Bass, Tenors, Altos and Sopranos and the sound stage you want them on. You did a really nice job on the placement and tone, sounds really good on the monitors. Soundstage sounds intimate, like a smaller theatre or hall .. very cool!

Great Job!
Cheers
KSmile
Gear:-Zoom R24 interface, controller - Cubase/Reaper - Assorted Waves, Airwindows suite, AKG K240 Cans, Event TR5 reference monitors.
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#3
(27-07-2018, 11:57 PM)KMuzic Wrote: Hey Dave

Nice mix!! .. I imagine everything on mixing a choir piece is placement of the singers, Bass, Tenors, Altos and Sopranos and the sound stage you want them on. You did a really nice job on the placement and tone, sounds really good on the monitors. Soundstage sounds intimate, like a smaller theatre or hall .. very cool!

Great Job!
Cheers
KSmile

Thanks K, I mixed this through headphones and laptop speakers, and haven't had a chance to hear it on monitors or the like yet. I tried to keep the placement as per captured by the stereo pair. and panning the spots accordingly, but was a little concerned by perhaps going too wide. I'm pleased it's sounding good your end. Thanks for the comments.

Dave
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#4
Returning the favour from your help over in Tyo's thread. Wink

This sounds too roomy to me. Perhaps less room-type mikes, more close mikes, then work the close mikes with emu's to create the illusion of space I think you are probably aiming for in your vision, but not quite getting.

In other words, I can hear your emu, but it's message contradicts the apparent size of room alluded to by the ambiance and early reflections in the room mikes. Downmixing to mono exacerbates the problem. Whatever, I think you need to shake the room off somehow.

I'm also tending to hear too much female and not enough male in the performance, the bass especially feels lacking somewhat. Quite possibly the headphones threw you, are they closed by any chance? Could you turn the women down and the blokes up to address this apparent imbalance?
1 in 5 YOUTHS suffer hearing impairment (phones and EARBUDS are a prime factor), along with a MAJORITY of MUSICIANS. Now read this: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/h...entia-risk So, how is YOUR hearing?
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#5
(30-07-2018, 09:11 PM)Monk Wrote: Returning the favour from your help over in Tyo's thread. Wink

This sounds too roomy to me. Perhaps less room-type mikes, more close mikes, then work the close mikes with emu's to create the illusion of space I think you are probably aiming for in your vision, but not quite getting.

In other words, I can hear your emu, but it's message contradicts the apparent size of room alluded to by the ambiance and early reflections in the room mikes. Downmixing to mono exacerbates the problem. Whatever, I think you need to shake the room off somehow.

I'm also tending to hear too much female and not enough male in the performance, the bass especially feels lacking somewhat. Quite possibly the headphones threw you, are they closed by any chance? Could you turn the women down and the blokes up to address this apparent imbalance?

Thanks for your thoughts Monk. I have made some alterations based on this and hopefully the mix is better for it. I'm still mixing through headphones so I'm sure there will be still issues within. I have pushed the close mics forward and adjusted the reverbs to include these and not the room mics. I'm finding the bass tracks a little unruly at times and any attempt to control these are very challenging. Also the sibilance present generally has proven difficult. Still a fun multi to play with.

Thanks again.
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#6
Mk2: This is more like it, well done. I get a much better sense of space. So, the close mikes have lost the niggling room tone and tight space. You've brought the choir closer to me, but I'd rather this and have the illusion of a bigger space any day than one which I'd never hear in a performance.

It would be possible to add a touch of distance here if you wanted, but depth is tricky in headphones. To be honest, other than exploring it for interest sake, I'd say there's little point.

You've balanced the guys and gals much much better too, I feel like this is a performance now and the choir is working together as a unit. Nice.

Multiband for the sibilance and bass and you'll be good to go. For me though, you've done the difficult bit and I really enjoyed listening to it. Thanks for that Wink
1 in 5 YOUTHS suffer hearing impairment (phones and EARBUDS are a prime factor), along with a MAJORITY of MUSICIANS. Now read this: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/h...entia-risk So, how is YOUR hearing?
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#7
(31-07-2018, 09:48 PM)Monk Wrote: Mk2: This is more like it, well done. I get a much better sense of space. So, the close mikes have lost the niggling room tone and tight space. You've brought the choir closer to me, but I'd rather this and have the illusion of a bigger space any day than one which I'd never hear in a performance.

It would be possible to add a touch of distance here if you wanted, but depth is tricky in headphones. To be honest, other than exploring it for interest sake, I'd say there's little point.

You've balanced the guys and gals much much better too, I feel like this is a performance now and the choir is working together as a unit. Nice.

Multiband for the sibilance and bass and you'll be good to go. For me though, you've done the difficult bit and I really enjoyed listening to it. Thanks for that Wink

Thanks Monk! I am pleased.Big Grin I have followed this up with a listen out in my studio with my monitors and I do agree about the forwardness of the mix. You know I never think to use multiband comp. I'll have to start having a play.

Thanks again for the follow up critique. Very encouraging.Big Grin
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#8
Hey, Dave! It's hard to judge without knowing how wet or dry the raw files were, but I don't really buy the space in v2. I kinda tell it's reverb, and so long and solemn that takes away some of the childish, silly feel of the song. Besides, bass voices are too big, HansZimmer-like subbassy and close to me, when I guess that, since they are actually less people than the sopranos, they should be less loud live?

I cannot talk much of frequencies and space placement, but it's likely I prefer v1 because it makes picture one two-hands instrument (some reed thing, like a harmonium or a big accordeon) more than, I dunno, a string quartet (meaning, more glue and less separation). I'm learning some piano at the moment and this mis makes me move my fingers all over the desk!
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#9
(20-08-2018, 11:01 AM)Deliza Wrote: Hey, Dave! It's hard to judge without knowing how wet or dry the raw files were, but I don't really buy the space in v2. I kinda tell it's reverb, and so long and solemn that takes away some of the childish, silly feel of the song. Besides, bass voices are too big, HansZimmer-like subbassy and close to me, when I guess that, since they are actually less people than the sopranos, they should be less loud live?

I cannot talk much of frequencies and space placement, but it's likely I prefer v1 because it makes picture one two-hands instrument (some reed thing, like a harmonium or a big accordeon) more than, I dunno, a string quartet (meaning, more glue and less separation). I'm learning some piano at the moment and this mis makes me move my fingers all over the desk!

Thanks for your thoughts here. Very helpful! In V1 I tried to use reverbs that helped reinforce the original sound and space. Where as V2 I've obviously tried to create a larger performance space which is a little alien to the original. I might have a go at a 3rd version using my nearfields as apposed to my headphones and see if I can get the balance in this regard somewhat more realistic and in style with the piece. Appreciate your comments. Deliza. Thank you.
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#10
A late revisit with some reverb tweakage. Is that even a word? Anyways a little warmer and natural sounding for my ears. Headphone perspective only though.
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