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Kings and Queens Monked
#1
Only thing I'd want to change here is the bass guitar during the outro as it gets a little too hot after I made a tweak somewhere else and didn't run it all the way through. Spank me later Wink

My toms are a little lost in the grand scheme of things, but they only move 3 times anyway. I think I might have rolled the OH's off and lost them because I know they were there originally. Cool

The material was overly rich in the low-mid range so much effort went into addressing this, getting better separation and clarity, dropped out the gimmicks of an earlier misadventure of mine, and lost the boogie samples for reasons I won't discuss. I made the vocal distorted generally (the louder the vocal gets, the less distortion of mine bleeds in) in the hope of drawing less attention to their applied distortions. Some of the guitars befitted from more attack and spirit, so spent some time on that, the mission also applied to the bass guitar.

Listening to a few mixes of this great song already and will be dropping some feedback shortly in the expectation that it will be reciprocated. Tongue


.m4a    Kings and Queens Monked s28.m4a --  (Download: 11.89 MB)


"Nearly half of all teenagers and young adults (12-35 years old) in middle- and high-income countries are exposed to unsafe levels of sound from the use of personal  audio  devices": https://tinyurl.com/6xeeahc5 Read my bio.
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#2
The overall frequency balance is off. The bass guitar is way too noticeable than it should be, and the vocals lack the sweet low mids. Interesting choice with effects.
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#3
(12-01-2018, 09:59 PM)Leumou Wrote: The overall frequency balance is off.

It would have helped if you elaborated on this rather than simply making a generalised statement.

Quote:The bass guitar is way too noticeable than it should be,

It's definitely a bass up mix, but I like bass perhaps more than you do. I could pull it back somewhat, but not as much as you've done in your mix.

But could you define "than it should be"? What is the standard you are referencing from, for example? Could it just be a matter of personal taste that you are inferring or maybe that your monitoring is adding some bias. Headphones can be a problem in this regard. I note that your mix has the bass recessed far more than the needs of Fletcher Munson would necessitate. What are you using for monitoring, as this would help me assess your comments and your mix, much more constructively?

I recommend you use an FFT, by the way.

Quote: and the vocals lack the sweet low mids.

I've not removed them, other than resonances. Your perception of the perceived lack might be because I added some mid range presence which was desperately needed, IMHO, to enhance clarity. Definition and clarity of vocal was important in my vision.

Quote:Interesting choice with effects.

Careful, you might be getting close to making a complement Tongue
"Nearly half of all teenagers and young adults (12-35 years old) in middle- and high-income countries are exposed to unsafe levels of sound from the use of personal  audio  devices": https://tinyurl.com/6xeeahc5 Read my bio.
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#4
Sounds good! Perhaps the drums could be more in-your-face, or have more 'smack', but that's highly personal opinion. Nice mixing! ^_^
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#5
(13-01-2018, 11:56 AM)Monk Wrote:
(12-01-2018, 09:59 PM)Leumou Wrote: The overall frequency balance is off.

It would have helped if you elaborated on this rather than simply making a generalised statement.

Quote:The bass guitar is way too noticeable than it should be,

It's definitely a bass up mix, but I like bass perhaps more than you do. I could pull it back somewhat, but not as much as you've done in your mix.

But could you define "than it should be"? What is the standard you are referencing from, for example? Could it just be a matter of personal taste that you are inferring or maybe that your monitoring is adding some bias. Headphones can be a problem in this regard. I note that your mix has the bass recessed far more than the needs of Fletcher Munson would necessitate. What are you using for monitoring, as this would help me assess your comments and your mix, much more constructively?

I recommend you use an FFT, by the way.

Quote: and the vocals lack the sweet low mids.

I've not removed them, other than resonances. Your perception of the perceived lack might be because I added some mid range presence which was desperately needed, IMHO, to enhance clarity. Definition and clarity of vocal was important in my vision.

Quote:Interesting choice with effects.

Careful, you might be getting close to making a complement Tongue

Sorry for the late reply.

For the frequency balance one, its a like a lot of things are emphasized in weird frequencies. Overall it is balanced in a sense, but all the individual elements have unusual eqs on them. Mostly noticeable on the bass guitar and vox.

For the comment about the bass guitar, I cant say for certain whats going on because I haven't pulled it into a DAW and analyzed it myself, but just hearing it alone, it is too prominent for me, considering the genre and my own personal tastes. I mean you are going off of Fletcher Munson, but I would discourage that and rather you use pink noise instead. I mean theyre pretty similar in a sense, but in general I tend to go with pink noise because it just works well across all monitoring systems. (Also, my mix is slightly dark I noticed as well).

For the vocal thing, I used to be struggling quite a lot on getting the low mids right; even to this day its quite a challenge. But the low mids are not prominent enough. It kinda sounds like you chopped off the balls of the singer, in a sense. Clarity and low mids dont really have much to do with each other on vocals tbh, and to me, theres nothing more eargasmic than a well processed vocal thiqq with low mids.

Also, I reference across many different monitoring systems but my ol' reliables so far have been HD 650s and CX300mkII, both by Senheiser. Call me unorthodox XD.
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#6


The low end on the bass is masking the upper frequencies.

The voice sound pretty good maybe lighten up on the effects.

I like the guitar tone and effects there kinda dreamy.

I just uploaded my 4th revision as well.

Later!
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#7
Hi Monk, I particularly liked the effects (reverb, space) you put on the guitars, nice. Worked really well. I can hear both sides of the 'bass' comments Smile I like a strong bass, but is it a little too strong ('thick') at around 170/180 Hz? You've made the guitars sound so good, but I think I'd like the lead vocal to be a bit more 'pleasant' to listen to, just my opinion. Overall, really good Smile
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#8
(17-01-2018, 10:37 AM)Leumou Wrote:
(13-01-2018, 11:56 AM)Monk Wrote:
(12-01-2018, 09:59 PM)Leumou Wrote: The overall frequency balance is off.

It would have helped if you elaborated on this rather than simply making a generalised statement.

Quote:The bass guitar is way too noticeable than it should be,

It's definitely a bass up mix, but I like bass perhaps more than you do. I could pull it back somewhat, but not as much as you've done in your mix.

But could you define "than it should be"? What is the standard you are referencing from, for example? Could it just be a matter of personal taste that you are inferring or maybe that your monitoring is adding some bias. Headphones can be a problem in this regard. I note that your mix has the bass recessed far more than the needs of Fletcher Munson would necessitate. What are you using for monitoring, as this would help me assess your comments and your mix, much more constructively?

I recommend you use an FFT, by the way.

Quote: and the vocals lack the sweet low mids.

I've not removed them, other than resonances. Your perception of the perceived lack might be because I added some mid range presence which was desperately needed, IMHO, to enhance clarity. Definition and clarity of vocal was important in my vision.

Quote:Interesting choice with effects.

Careful, you might be getting close to making a complement Tongue

Sorry for the late reply.

For the frequency balance one, its a like a lot of things are emphasized in weird frequencies. Overall it is balanced in a sense, but all the individual elements have unusual eqs on them. Mostly noticeable on the bass guitar and vox.

For the comment about the bass guitar, I cant say for certain whats going on because I haven't pulled it into a DAW and analyzed it myself, but just hearing it alone, it is too prominent for me, considering the genre and my own personal tastes. I mean you are going off of Fletcher Munson, but I would discourage that and rather you use pink noise instead. I mean theyre pretty similar in a sense, but in general I tend to go with pink noise because it just works well across all monitoring systems. (Also, my mix is slightly dark I noticed as well).

For the vocal thing, I used to be struggling quite a lot on getting the low mids right; even to this day its quite a challenge. But the low mids are not prominent enough. It kinda sounds like you chopped off the balls of the singer, in a sense. Clarity and low mids dont really have much to do with each other on vocals tbh, and to me, theres nothing more eargasmic than a well processed vocal thiqq with low mids.

Also, I reference across many different monitoring systems but my ol' reliables so far have been HD 650s and CX300mkII, both by Senheiser. Call me unorthodox XD.

Thanks for coming back with the detail.

Speaking about vocal low mids generally, I'd agree, but in this specific instance I'd have to disagree. Drop a low pass fader on the vocal and slowly sweep it downwards and it doesn't take long before it gets right out of shape. The reason is a combination of factors, me thinks. The room imparting it's strong early reflections and smearing the stuff below ~500Hz is one big factor. Given the choice of clarity vs mud, i'd take clarity any day of the week Big Grin

Re the bass? Pink noise doesn't follow the ear's frequency response which is why those who rely on it have weak bass and a dodgy treble. I revisited the mix, lowered the bass and I lost interest in the music immediately. For me, it felt like the song needed the bass line to provide and anchor for the song.

Headphones exaggerate bass. They have to because of the limitations of strapping a transducer against the pinna to make up for the fact that we can't feel it. I could pull the bass fader down a gnats whisker, but I'd still whinge about it.

There's another problem with the bass guitar which I don't think has been mentioned. It looks, and sounds, like it's been heavily EQ'd, with all it's mid range cut and actually rather a lot of the lower mids too. This song needs the mid range of the bass guitar, urgently (>1000Hz). I'd say, that if this was available the bass guitar would be more settled with the other instruments. There's no attack in the recording whatsoever.

A tonne of thanks for taking the time and effort here. Top.
"Nearly half of all teenagers and young adults (12-35 years old) in middle- and high-income countries are exposed to unsafe levels of sound from the use of personal  audio  devices": https://tinyurl.com/6xeeahc5 Read my bio.
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#9
(17-01-2018, 10:37 AM)Leumou Wrote: I reference across many different monitoring systems but my ol' reliables so far have been HD 650s

Take a look at the attached image. This is what you are hearing in your cans. Note the boost on the bass?


Thumbnail(s)
   
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#10
(16-01-2018, 03:58 AM)kapu Wrote: Sounds good! Perhaps the drums could be more in-your-face, or have more 'smack', but that's highly personal opinion. Nice mixing! ^_^

Thanks for dropping by kapu and returning the favour. Top.

I didn't understand the song but the vibe from the instruments in general didn't really support such a drum kit by my reckoning, so I took the settled approach. For me, any more push and shove and they would have threatened engulfing and out-performing everything else (says he with a cranked up bass guitar - lol).



"Nearly half of all teenagers and young adults (12-35 years old) in middle- and high-income countries are exposed to unsafe levels of sound from the use of personal  audio  devices": https://tinyurl.com/6xeeahc5 Read my bio.
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