Lorenzo-Things need changing! It's unmixable

[Max Headroom]

Yes folks, your eyes aren't deceiving you. You read the subject header correctly.

Unfortunately your ears are deceiving you, which suggests your critical listening skills need to be "critical". If you want to mix, it's the first thing you need to develop; a good pair of ears that's connected to a brain that understands what the ears are telling it. It's not easy, to be sure, but some of you have been around a while and should be able to spot the problem immediately and help those who are inexperienced.

Just a couple of listens around the sub suggested something ominous so I downloaded the project. Low and behold.

Take it as a valuable learning point and put Critical Listening Skills at the top of your To-do list. Best make it a priority, or crash and burn.

[thedon]

Hey Max you give the impression of being a pro reading your feedback , Just wondering why you haven't posted a mix since you joined in 2014 ?

[Mixinthecloud]

Yes folks, your eyes aren't deceiving you. You read the subject header correctly.

Unfortunately your ears are deceiving you, which suggests your critical listening skills need to be "critical". If you want to mix, it's the first thing you need to develop; a good pair of ears that's connected to a brain that understands what the ears are telling it. It's not easy, to be sure, but some of you have been around a while and should be able to spot the problem immediately and help those who are inexperienced.

Just a couple of listens around the sub suggested something ominous so I downloaded the project. Low and behold.

Take it as a valuable learning point and put Critical Listening Skills at the top of your To-do list. Best make it a priority, or crash and burn.

Since we, the professionals here, are baffled by your discord and disdain for this particular composition, maybe you can enlighten us with your wisdom and critical ears. What are we missing which you found so blaringly obvious?

[Mike Senior]

Hi Max,

Well, I'm afraid I have to disagree with your thread title. I personally vet every project that I upload to the Cambridge-MT site, in order to ascertain whether I think it's mixable or not, an activity that takes up a good deal of my time. Believe me, I've been responsible for mixing plenty of apparently unmixable projects for the SOS Mix Rescue column, so I have a certain amount of experience in this area. Yes, some of the projects in the library are challenging, and this one does indeed have some technical challenges, but for that reason it's also a good learning opportunity -- and one that relates directly to project-studio reality. If you feel you are unable to find a way to deliver a decent-sounding mix of this project, then by all means ignore it and save your own skillset for projects that suit it. However, if you wish to contribute to this Discussion Zone, then I would ask you please to help uphold the positive and constructive atmosphere that we've all worked hard to maintain -- and at the very least refrain from maligning the very contributors who kindly make this valuable learning resource possible without you having to pay a dime.

If you would like further information about the ethos of this community, please check out The Three Commandments.

Many thanks,

Mike Senior

[Max Headroom]

this one does indeed have some technical challenges, but for that reason it's also a good learning opportunity -- and one that relates directly to project-studio reality.

Hello,

One of the tracks was clipping quite badly during recording. I can imagine how it might fox the unwary, because the track had been attenuated sometime after recording and doesn't draw attention to itself, at least not obviously in a visual sense.
If left at it's original level (I assume it wasn't you who changed it during the vetting stage, or you who introduced the clipping?), the community would have had a chance to spot it with their "eyes". They could then "listen" and inform themselves how the material's clipping distortion can be identified "by ear" and in turn become part of the brain's memory for future reference.
If the problem remains hidden and unexposed, it is merely a potential for learning which exists and therefore it is not of itself, educational. It's exposure is, however, and I've surely been educational in providing the catalyst for knowledge and skills development? At least that was the intention.
Now at least, for those who failed to spot the problem, they can go and explore and learn what clipping distortion sounds like and how it imparts itself in a mix by its response to process and parameter selection.
Hopefully, all the flame and discourse has been extinguished herewith, forthwith.

However, if you wish to contribute to this Discussion Zone, then I would ask you please to help uphold the positive and constructive atmosphere that we've all worked hard to maintain

Yes, I was cheeky. Though it honestly worries me that long time participants can't identify clipping, to use this thread as a case in point. If I read a header or a post that said a project was unmixable, I'd explore why, either through dialogue or simply pursuing the material and pushing it around a bit to try and understand (and hence learn) why they might have felt that way. I'd then make up my own mind about what is, and what isn't, mixable. Not forgetting, of course, that "mixable" is closely correlated to subjectivity anyway, and fundamentally too, one's mixing goals for the project in question.

[Max Headroom]

Hey Max you give the impression of being a pro reading your feedback , Just wondering why you haven't posted a mix since you joined in 2014 ?

We are all novices, learning off one another. It will only end if someone develops the software to replicate an engineer of our choosing. Dial in Max on the preset, and the algorithm will give you a Max mix, done her way, and in about one-thousandth of a second. My worst nightmare! Then you can dial in your Mastering Engineer of your choice, if it's in the preset, and bingo.

The reason I joined this, and other forums, is so you, and others in the community, can help me to better understand how people engage in the mixing process, and I thank you for that. Having had an opportunity to mentor someone from ground zero to a point where they developed their own wings, it's more than tweaked my interest in The Process and how individuals tackle it, and progress, and over what time frame without the benefit of the old apprenticeship model.

In essence, it's a long winded way of saying I have no reason to post mixes here. Besides, I'm critical enough to be able to pull my own projects to pieces!

[Max Headroom]

Since we are baffled by your discord and disdain for this particular composition, maybe you can enlighten us with your wisdom and critical ears. What are we missing which you found so blaringly obvious?

To correct you, there is no discord or disdain for this composition. Quite the opposite actually. I think it's a shame that it has that one problem which I can't help but hear which breaks the mix and the emotion. You know what? If it passes you by, then it passes you by.

If you'd like some advice on setting up a RFZ, let me know. I can offer you some affordable tips to help you. What you have here is good for casual listening while surfing the net and listening to music in the background, but for critical listening and mixing it couldn't be much worse.

At a rough estimate, your efforts, maybe 70 percent, are spent mixing the room rather than what's in the DAW. This is a reason why your mixes are so variable and lack consistency, as your listening space works it's spell depending on what material you feed it with.

I understand we are here to talk about mixes and giving feedback on mixes, however, if the listening space isn't conducive to critical listening, then it's going to limit progress and that limit becomes a waste of life and opportunity. I have heard a number of your mixes and read a few posts, and it's clear to me your listening environment should be more aligned to your needs.

My attitude is to work smarter, not harder. If you are happy and unaware of the prevailing issues and the status quo, I have no worries with that. But if I were you, I'd fix it ASAP by finding someone who knows their gravy.

[Mixinthecloud]

Hey Max you give the impression of being a pro reading your feedback , Just wondering why you haven't posted a mix since you joined in 2014 ?

We are all novices, learning off one another. It will only end if someone develops the software to replicate an engineer of our choosing. Dial in Max on the preset, and the algorithm will give you a Max mix, done her way, and in about one-thousandth of a second. My worst nightmare! Then you can dial in your Mastering Engineer of your choice, if it's in the preset, and bingo.

The reason I joined this, and other forums, is so you, and others in the community, can help me to better understand how people engage in the mixing process, and I thank you for that. Having had an opportunity to mentor someone from ground zero to a point where they developed their own wings, it's more than tweaked my interest in The Process and how individuals tackle it, and progress, and over what time frame without the benefit of the old apprenticeship model.

In essence, it's a long winded way of saying I have no reason to post mixes here. Besides, I'm critical enough to be able to pull my own projects to pieces!

You have chastised this particular recording and the mixers who have participated in it by stating one of the tracks is clipped and therefore the song is un-mixable. Yet no one agrees with you on that assessment and you have never defined which track you are referring to. If we are all that sonically challenged, why may I ask, are you here? You seem uninterested in participating by stating we are not worthy of your efforts. If that is your feeling, there is no reason for you to participate if you offer nothing but disdain. I think you should check your system before condemning everyone else. I do not believe you are the professional you claim to be. This blog is about conversations. You do not wish to have any so it may best to log off and not return. Anyone who claims to be above the participants here is probably too scared to have their mixes reviewed or questioned. No learning possibilities there. If you are that good, put up or shutup. We are all here to learn, not to be denigrated by you.

Have a nice day.

[javierpg84]

Hey Max you give the impression of being a pro reading your feedback , Just wondering why you haven't posted a mix since you joined in 2014 ?

We are all novices, learning off one another. It will only end if someone develops the software to replicate an engineer of our choosing. Dial in Max on the preset, and the algorithm will give you a Max mix, done her way, and in about one-thousandth of a second. My worst nightmare! Then you can dial in your Mastering Engineer of your choice, if it's in the preset, and bingo.

The reason I joined this, and other forums, is so you, and others in the community, can help me to better understand how people engage in the mixing process, and I thank you for that. Having had an opportunity to mentor someone from ground zero to a point where they developed their own wings, it's more than tweaked my interest in The Process and how individuals tackle it, and progress, and over what time frame without the benefit of the old apprenticeship model.

In essence, it's a long winded way of saying I have no reason to post mixes here. Besides, I'm critical enough to be able to pull my own projects to pieces!

You have chastised this particular recording and the mixers who have participated in it by stating one of the tracks is clipped and therefore the song is un-mixable. Yet no one agrees with you on that assessment and you have never defined which track you are referring to. If we are all that sonically challenged, why may I ask, are you here? You seem uninterested in participating by stating we are not worthy of your efforts. If that is your feeling, there is no reason for you to participate if you offer nothing but disdain. I think you should check your system before condemning everyone else. I do not believe you are the professional you claim to be. This blog is about conversations. You do not wish to have any so it may best to log off and not return. Anyone who claims to be above the participants here is probably too scared to have their mixes reviewed or questioned. No learning possibilities there. If you are that good, put up or shutup. We are all here to learn, not to be denigrated by you.

Have a nice day.

Hi Mixinthecloud:

Aside from all subjective considerations, Maxheadroom findings are right. The guitar track is clipped. I had to restore it when I mixed this song by using Izotope RX5. In my humble opinion, engineering is about finding solutions to challenges, like excessive clipping. Now going to the subjective part, in order to learn, we need to listen to the music and to our mentors. We learn from each other every day here and I appreciate all the critic feedback from every member in this forum and specially people like Mike Senior and Maxheadroom. Lets keep it cool and lets keep this forum democratic and free of censorship.
Sincerely,
javierpg84

[dcp10200]

Hi Mixinthecloud:

Aside from all subjective considerations, Maxheadroom findings are right. The guitar track is clipped. I had to restore it when I mixed this song by using Izotope RX5. In my humble opinion, engineering is about finding solutions to challenges, like excessive clipping. Now going to the subjective part, in order to learn, we need to listen to the music and to our mentors. We learn from each other every day here and I appreciate all the critic feedback from every member in this forum and specially people like Mike Senior and Maxheadroom. Lets keep it cool and lets keep this forum democratic and free of censorship.
Sincerely,
javierpg84

Javier, the problem is how Maxine addressed the situation. Instead of finding a solution and working with the tracks she just went on a rant and called the thing "unmixable" because on one element which she didn't even care to elaborate on. She made comments about how terrible each mix was and failed to post a mix of her own to prove her statement about how the track was unmixable. Also if you notice her posts are similar to Metallurgist's and in the same derogatory tone.