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The Apprehended: 'Still Flyin''
#11
Love it. Damn good mix. There's nothing that sticks out in a bad way, grabs too much attention or sounds like something that I wouldn't expect from a band in this genre. Okay, the melody guitars should come up in the 2nd chorus at 2:00 because you can barely hear them. From a listeners perspective, they add something new and exciting and should be at least on par with the main vocals which are kinda boring in that part. Use the pan knob and get the guitar melody out of the centre where it fights the vocals, then turn down the volume of the rhythm guitar on that side by at least 3db and it will probably work. If not, try to low pass the rhythm guitar and high pass the melody until they fit and use automation to undo everything so the rhythm guitar gets back to its glory when the melody stops.

Same situation at 4:00: There is a cool melody in the background, but it's completely buried under the rhythm guitars. As a listener, those rhythm guitars don't add anything new to me anymore - but the melody does. You really need to bring down the rhythm guitars and show me the melody to keep things interesting. You can again turn down one side of the rhythm guitars and pan the melody hard left or right and place the melody on top of the rhythm guitar on that side. There is a nice video of Daniel Ford explaining this kind of stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gylFFtD_...tD_kx0#t=2

Daniel Ford also said in a video that every part of a song needs three things: the rhythm section, the lieutenant, and the star. In 99% the vocals are the star, and everything else should support them. The lieutenant is the stuff that sits in the background and adds nice information to the song, like melodies, interesting effects, stuff like that. Every time the vocals leave the mainstage you need to find another "star" for the listener and put that in the spotlight. Most of the time you can fill that spot with the lieutenant. Even if you only have drums, bass and rhythm guitars you should focus on one element of the rhythm section and make it interesting/louder/upfront.

I'm writing this because there is a problem with "the star" at 2:16 in your mix: there is none. Easy fix: The tapping solo needs to come up to main vocal level because it IS the star of that part. It should be upfront, in the face of the listener, right in the centre and definitely on a higher level as the rhythm section. Of course, the tapping solo has to leave the "mainstage" and make room for the main vocals again when they come back in at 2:30.

Talking about the melody & solo guitars in my mix: Most of the time I have them panned hard left and right in my mix and constantly automate the volume of my rhythm guitars and synths when something new & fresh enters the stage. As an example the tapping solo at 2:18 begins in the centre at vocal level and spreads to the left & right channel when the vocals come back in at 2:30. That was a pretty obvious move because the tapping solo doubles at 2:30 and the rhythm guitars are not adding anything new that should be getting the attention of the listener. So why not use the left and right channel for the dual tapping melody instead of the same rhythm guitar riff that we already know? I know that the riff sounds nice and punchy, but it doesn't loose that energy if you turn down the rhythm guitars on both sides and put the tapping melody on top of it.

Another example of this is the reverb on the snare in the bridge at 3:03. The snare is my "silent star" until the vocals come back at 3:15, supporting the mood of the song and adding another spot of interest because the atmospheric acoustic guitars don't fill up the whole space. Therefore I had to "present" that snare to the listener in a new and interesting way. Bringing the whole mix down by 3db and adding a long plate reverb was enough to do that trick. I also automate every guitar fill and bass slide to put them in the spotlight an create small bubbles of excitement Smile
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#12
(21-12-2016, 12:33 PM)Blitzzz Wrote: Love it. Damn good mix. There's nothing that sticks out in a bad way, grabs too much attention or sounds like something that I wouldn't expect from a band in this genre. Okay, the melody guitars should come up in the 2nd chorus at 2:00 because you can barely hear them. From a listeners perspective, they add something new and exciting and should be at least on par with the main vocals which are kinda boring in that part. Use the pan knob and get the guitar melody out of the centre where it fights the vocals, then turn down the volume of the rhythm guitar on that side by at least 3db and it will probably work. If not, try to low pass the rhythm guitar and high pass the melody until they fit and use automation to undo everything so the rhythm guitar gets back to its glory when the melody stops.

Same situation at 4:00: There is a cool melody in the background, but it's completely buried under the rhythm guitars. As a listener, those rhythm guitars don't add anything new to me anymore - but the melody does. You really need to bring down the rhythm guitars and show me the melody to keep things interesting. You can again turn down one side of the rhythm guitars and pan the melody hard left or right and place the melody on top of the rhythm guitar on that side. There is a nice video of Daniel Ford explaining this kind of stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gylFFtD_...tD_kx0#t=2

Daniel Ford also said in a video that every part of a song needs three things: the rhythm section, the lieutenant, and the star. In 99% the vocals are the star, and everything else should support them. The lieutenant is the stuff that sits in the background and adds nice information to the song, like melodies, interesting effects, stuff like that. Every time the vocals leave the mainstage you need to find another "star" for the listener and put that in the spotlight. Most of the time you can fill that spot with the lieutenant. Even if you only have drums, bass and rhythm guitars you should focus on one element of the rhythm section and make it interesting/louder/upfront.

I'm writing this because there is a problem with "the star" at 2:16 in your mix: there is none. Easy fix: The tapping solo needs to come up to main vocal level because it IS the star of that part. It should be upfront, in the face of the listener, right in the centre and definitely on a higher level as the rhythm section. Of course, the tapping solo has to leave the "mainstage" and make room for the main vocals again when they come back in at 2:30.

Talking about the melody & solo guitars in my mix: Most of the time I have them panned hard left and right in my mix and constantly automate the volume of my rhythm guitars and synths when something new & fresh enters the stage. As an example the tapping solo at 2:18 begins in the centre at vocal level and spreads to the left & right channel when the vocals come back in at 2:30. That was a pretty obvious move because the tapping solo doubles at 2:30 and the rhythm guitars are not adding anything new that should be getting the attention of the listener. So why not use the left and right channel for the dual tapping melody instead of the same rhythm guitar riff that we already know? I know that the riff sounds nice and punchy, but it doesn't loose that energy if you turn down the rhythm guitars on both sides and put the tapping melody on top of it.

Another example of this is the reverb on the snare in the bridge at 3:03. The snare is my "silent star" until the vocals come back at 3:15, supporting the mood of the song and adding another spot of interest because the atmospheric acoustic guitars don't fill up the whole space. Therefore I had to "present" that snare to the listener in a new and interesting way. Bringing the whole mix down by 3db and adding a long plate reverb was enough to do that trick. I also automate every guitar fill and bass slide to put them in the spotlight an create small bubbles of excitement Smile

Thanks Dirk, I appreciate the detail. I know that you're right into this genre! Cheers, Mick

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#13
(21-12-2016, 11:41 AM)mick2015 Wrote: Thanks Shul, appreciate it. What are you monitoring with? I'm usually very sensitive to annoying cymbals and to me these don't sound overly harsh. Once again, it's a taste thing but I do like a bit of silky sizzle lol.


I'm using Mackies Mr5 Mk3. Yeah it's a preference thing.. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Like I said I was mixing another song and my ears were too worn out maybe Smile
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#14
Hi there Mick,
As Blitzzz already said, I also miss the lead guitars being upfront after the second chorus, it´s their moment, and vocals are really asking to go back there. I don´t feel rhythm guitars are too loud, I indeed fu...in love them, but it´s wise to automate them on some parts to let the leads sing.

Personally, I don´t like the effect on vocals on 1:20. Get the intention but I would apply it other way. Also I feel toms are quite little sounding, I would try a reverb or more low end on them. And on the 3:20 part, clean guitars can really shine with more effects, for example I used echoboy and a shimmer to make them more atmospheric. Just an idea I think really suits this genre.

Love your vocals treatment, I really messed up on them. And that groove! killer! Please check my mix, I would love to hear your opinion.

Cheers,
Matias
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#15
(26-12-2016, 06:07 AM)matiasgodoy399 Wrote: Hi there Mick,
As Blitzzz already said, I also miss the lead guitars being upfront after the second chorus, it´s their moment, and vocals are really asking to go back there. I don´t feel rhythm guitars are too loud, I indeed fu...in love them, but it´s wise to automate them on some parts to let the leads sing.

Personally, I don´t like the effect on vocals on 1:20. Get the intention but I would apply it other way. Also I feel toms are quite little sounding, I would try a reverb or more low end on them. And on the 3:20 part, clean guitars can really shine with more effects, for example I used echoboy and a shimmer to make them more atmospheric. Just an idea I think really suits this genre.

Love your vocals treatment, I really messed up on them. And that groove! killer! Please check my mix, I would love to hear your opinion.

Cheers,
Matias

Thanks Matias, I just left some comments on your mix also. Cheers.
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#16
(19-12-2016, 09:48 AM)mick2015 Wrote: Hey All,

Here's my mix of 'Still Flyin". I haven't been on here much recently, been a bit busy, but thought this one was a good one to work with. Some unique challenges there and I've listened to quite a few of the mixes uploaded. Feedback and comments welcome as always.

Cheers,
Mick

UPDATE: Version 2 uploaded
I think this is perfect everything is right where it needs to be the only thing is it could be a little less harsh sounding in the upper mids that practically all i have to say good job!
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#17
Thanks Andrew, appreciate it Smile
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