03-12-2016, 01:34 AM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2016, 03:23 PM by dcp10200.)
I went for a sort of "Live from the Studio" sound on this track. As with the last track from W.I.N,D this was a blast to mix, it's the kind of track to play when driving in a mid 60's muscle car tearing up back country roads and highways!
I did notice that cymbal bleed was more prevalent on the drums for this track which made using a conventional noise gate tricky, in the end using a transient designer and turning down the sustain on the kick and snare gae a more natural sound while taming the cymbals (JST just released a new plugin called Tominator that deals with cymbal bleed with a cross between dynamic EQ and gate which I'm going to take a look at). Other than that and a quick phase flip on the inside kick mic, the drums were well recorded and easy to mix.
Cheers,
Doug
Update: Heres a new version with some adjustments to the kick, horns, and bass.
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
Hi dcp10200 I like the vocals fx this is a very good mix nice and bright, another great track from the band,just watch those ss, and ts on main vocal, good job.
Overall sound very good to my ears.
Kick is maybe a bit too loud, at least in the lowest area.
First I liked those vox delays, but after some time it started to disturp the groove
Horns are quite dry to be an instrument that one normally listens from safety distance.
Yeah, it feels nice. I'd just echo what Olli said.
The kick does feel loud but that's a common issue on this track. Personally I notice more in the top end than the low end but then again I'm on earbuds. I'm starting to thing that this track needs just a real flappy open kick but all of those kick mic options pull us into a bigger sound. Maybe keeping the kick mic out of phase and not fixing it is the trick.
The horns sound good but I agree they could have just a touch of space.
I like the centered guitars. I do wonder if the two guitars or a little redundant and if the whole track would open up with just one guitar.
Nothing much to complain about on this. It sounds very balanced and smooth. Good job.
(03-12-2016, 10:41 AM)Olli H Wrote: Overall sound very good to my ears.
Kick is maybe a bit too loud, at least in the lowest area.
First I liked those vox delays, but after some time it started to disturp the groove
Horns are quite dry to be an instrument that one normally listens from safety distance.
Thanks Olli! I agree with you on the vox delays, when I set them up I didn't adjust the feedback it gets a little cheesy sounding (especially in the verses when the bass and guitars cut out). For Funk generally I try to go for a fairly dry sounding horn section, I find that most horn sections in Funk are actually much drier sounding that we realize (more so the stuff from the 70's like Tower of Power,Sly and the Family Stone, and Parliament/Funkadelic), stil I did mix em pretty forward in the mix and adding a small room or studio verb would soften them up a bit more and help em fit in the mix. Kick wise I did use RBass to bring out the thump of the kick more, in the end I think it did sound a touch over processed and is probably why it seems too forward . This time I removed most of my processing on the kick and only used the kick in and out mics. This gives a more open sound and lets me make the bass a bit fatter sounding overall
Cheers,
Doug
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
(03-12-2016, 02:52 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: Maybe keeping the kick mic out of phase and not fixing it is the trick.
I would really advise against that Roy, while it makes the kick seem more loose and open mono compatibility then becomes an issue. The solution is to not use all three kick tracks, rather just use the kick in and Kick out tracks and filter out the top end on the kick out track and highpass the kick in track around 100 Hz and blend between the 2. As I mentioned to olli I was using Waves RBass on my kick to beef it up and some other heavy handed processing to send it home, simply removing that seemed to help the kick and allowed be to add a touch more low end to the bass.
Cheers,
Doug
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
(03-12-2016, 02:52 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: Maybe keeping the kick mic out of phase and not fixing it is the trick.
I would really advise against that Roy, while it makes the kick seem more loose and open mono compatibility then becomes an issue. The solution is to not use all three kick tracks, rather just use the kick in and Kick out tracks and filter out the top end on the kick out track and highpass the kick in track around 100 Hz and blend between the 2. As I mentioned to olli I was using Waves RBass on my kick to beef it up and some other heavy handed processing to send it home, simply removing that seemed to help the kick and allowed be to add a touch more low end to the bass.
Cheers,
Doug
But the kick is mono already so mono compatibility is moot. Sure you could argue how it might effect the OHs or Room signals but I wouldn't worry about that. I usually filter out the low end out of the OHs anyway. All it's really going to matter to is the sound of the kick and how all three mic signals react. If it sounds good if one of the mic's polarity is reversed then that's fine. It's only really an issue with stereo information. Yeah 95% of the time having a Kick in and Kick Out mic in phase sounds better and reinforces the low end but if you flip the phase of one and it sounds good then great. Of course, now check it with the rest of the drum mics and see which mic sounds better flipped. But the kick is mono already so mono compatibility is moot. Sure you could argue how it might effect the OHs or Room signals but I wouldn't worry about that. I usually filter out the low end out of the OHs anyway. All it's really going to matter to is the sound of the kick and how all three mic signals react. If it sounds good if one of the mic's polarity is reversed then that's fine. It's only really an issue with stereo information. Yeah 95% of the time having a Kick in and Kick Out mic in phase sounds better and reinforces the low end but if you flip the phase of one and it sounds good then great. Of course, now check it with the rest of the drum mics and see which mic sounds better flipped.
In the case of this song, if the out of phase kick mic cuts some lows and thins it out a little that might not be a bad thing. It's really just eq.
(03-12-2016, 02:52 PM)RoyMatthews Wrote: But the kick is mono already so mono compatibility is moot. Sure you could argue how it might effect the OHs or Room signals but I wouldn't worry about that. I usually filter out the low end out of the OHs anyway. All it's really going to matter to is the sound of the kick and how all three mic signals react. If it sounds good if one of the mic's polarity is reversed then that's fine. It's only really an issue with stereo information. Yeah 95% of the time having a Kick in and Kick Out mic in phase sounds better and reinforces the low end but if you flip the phase of one and it sounds good then great. Of course, now check it with the rest of the drum mics and see which mic sounds better flipped. But the kick is mono already so mono compatibility is moot. Sure you could argue how it might effect the OHs or Room signals but I wouldn't worry about that. I usually filter out the low end out of the OHs anyway. All it's really going to matter to is the sound of the kick and how all three mic signals react. If it sounds good if one of the mic's polarity is reversed then that's fine. It's only really an issue with stereo information. Yeah 95% of the time having a Kick in and Kick Out mic in phase sounds better and reinforces the low end but if you flip the phase of one and it sounds good then great. Of course, now check it with the rest of the drum mics and see which mic sounds better flipped.
In the case of this song, if the out of phase kick mic cuts some lows and thins it out a little that might not be a bad thing. It's really just eq.
That's what I'm talking about, the kick is affecting the overheads , filtering the overheads solves the problem with the kick but kills the snare. The method that makes the most sense to me is to have phase cohesion between the kick and overheads and work from there. When listening in mono, the kick sounded worse when out of phase with the overheads, and in stereo it lacked the energy needed for this track. A more Bonham style kick sound seemed to be what this track needed, somewhere between punchy and open.
Mixing is way more art and soul than science. We don’t really know what we’re doing. We do it because we love music! It’s the love of music first. Eddie Kramer
Gear list: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mbox Mini w/Pro Tools Express, Reaper, Various plugins, AKG K240 MKii, Audio Technica ATH M50x, Yorkville YSM 6
But, to be fair, that's not necessarily an issue with mono compatibility. It'd be the same issue with mono overheads.
In the end I totally agree with you that getting drum mics in phase is the ideal situation but also there is nothing wrong with looking for a sound and flipping the phase of a mic and seeing what works best or different. What I'm really talking about isn't a drastic relationship between mics.
(part of what kills the snare in this one is the bottom mic being out of phase with the top mic.)
. This time I removed most of my processing on the kick and only used the kick in and out mics. This gives a more open sound and lets me make the bass a bit fatter sounding overall