Still Flying FINAL MIX (2)

[Blitzzz]

Sounds okay, but for me, the feeling isn't there. I`m missing the aggressiveness of the rhythm guitars, the punch of the drums, the tightness of the rhythm section. the toms have no punch at all. the spoken words in the chorus (or the very low voice) are too loud and sound annoying. the screaming part at 2:40 is in the wrong spot. the delayed guitars are not really in sync with the groove in the bridge and sound distracting although I like the effect. You have to nail this effect 110%, make it groove - right now it doesn't work.

Don't get me wrong: It is a big improvement over your first mix. I´m not a great mixer, I´m just another dude but I would say you need to invest more time in the basic mixing of a song. Don't get lost in hunting for offending frequencies or trying to find the right compressor. If you don't nail the groove with drums, bass and rhythm guitars, if you can't make the song breathe, then everything else is kinda worthless. You don't need 3 verbs, 2 delays and other stuff to achieve that. EQ, compression (or limiting for this genre) and the volume fader of each track in the right spot at the right time is all you need. For me, getting the volume of each track in the right spot throughout the whole song is the number 1 thing that makes or brakes a mix. You can add so much weight and power with a 3db volume change when everything is balanced, it's crazy.

I don't know if you already heard of it but nailthemix.com teaches you exactly how to mix songs like this. My mixing has improved a lot since I´m a member, and I have gained a lot of self-confidence because now I know that Joey, Eyal or Joel are using the same tools and are struggling with the same problems. Joey for example mixes in an untreated room, doesn't give a shit about how things "should" be done and only cares about how it sounds. I´ve seen him using the cheapest cubase reverb on the snare and no other verb for the rest of the song (not even for the vocals) and it sounded awesome.

[Shul]

Comment is much appreciated Blitz.

Screams are where I wanted them to be. Seems like you used the reference too much lol. Reason for it is because the shift between the end of the section have it an interesting tempo effect in a weird way. It doesn't sound wrong to me (it's different for everyone I know). Unless you say it sounds wrong because the timing doesn't work at all then we can agree you are basing that comment just on the reference track.

I admit my mix has too much lows masking the definition on guitars. I also didn't like the air in the recordings of the guitar and therefore I might have tamed them too much. My fault here I should have gone easy on the low end. This is creating that breathing problem you are talking about where it sounds like the mix is drowning.

Regarding the tightness of drums.. I think yours has too much kick and too much toms.. Making my mix sounding like it just doesn't have that punch.. But I think it does. I'm a drumer my self and I also play guitar. Metalcore is in my too genres I listen to so I have a decent knowledge about balancing the rythm section. Its eq'ing that i need to get better at because most of my masking problems come from here.

Having said that I disagree a bit on the basics of mixing. Given the magnitude of this song and the challenges you know it has I think I covered balancing quite well or else this wouldn't sound like it does. As for the processing... Many people here don't have a clue of what most people use in their processing. You can use 5 reverbs on a snare 3 on guitars.. I have used reverbs on kick.. Etc.. That will just make you a lot better at manipulating sound. Some guitars are recorded with reverb.. In a good treated room and their players are skilled when it comes to recording. Drums.. Bass... I understand that sometimes simple is the way to go.. I understand that sometimes all you need is just a stock compressor and things will sound good... But let me ask you this.. If I were to ask for you to match my mix as close as you can.. Would you be able to do it? I'm sure I couldn't match your but knowing and experimenting with sound manipulation will give you a better understanding.
For example how do I get that snare sound from as I lay dying with the snare I have right now. You can't tune it and you can't replace the recording. Sound manipulation with processing is your best friend.. And I'm guilty of trying to use varieties of plugins for this reason.

Thanks for the input on that site.. I shall check it out and see what it is in doing wrong because if there is something lack is eq ing guitars lol.

Much appreciate your thoughts thank you.

[Blitzzz]

If you wanna know how to mix that stuff you should join nailthemix.com. You will get the original files of a song from a pro band every month and you can mix those songs for yourself and you will see how the original mixer mixes that song live ITB in an 7-8 hour session on youtube. They had Joel Wanasek mixing a Machine Head song, Nolly doing Peripherys Prayer Position, Kane Churko doing Papa Roach and this month it's Gojira with Logan Mader. All the stuff I told you are the lessons I have learned from those sessions. That's just how those songs are made.

Here is a small vid from the first NTM live mix in 2015 with Joel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3TepnWv5P0

Here is Nolly dialing in his famous bass tone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq62X1hQoFY

And here is Joey explaining how he cuts frequencies in distorted guitars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KhR_o-eBtU

And I´m beeing totally honest here: The stuff you learn in that community will bring you to another level in no time. You see guys like Joey or Nolly mixing songs in an 6-8 hour session, spending 90% of that time on the basics (volume, panning, eq, compression/limiting and automation) and doing almost no fancy, freaky stuff at all. That's why their stuff sounds so good. They use ref tracks, and they don't work without a proper pre production or a demo of the song they mix. Why? Because thats the only way to make sure the song is exactly how the band wants it to be, not how they want it to be.

And then you come over here, listen to guys mixing with 14 different compressors, 5 reverbs, sidechaining, reamping and parallel compressing like crazy when they should have spend more time with the basic stuff

[Shul]

Great video material man thank you!

I hope more people look into that site. An awesome contribution.

[mick2015]

Hi Shul, I like the overall balance you've achieved with your final mix. The synths are a bit loud for this genre perhaps and the vocals are a touch dull, but these are pretty minor things in context. If anything, I think perhaps the mix is a bit conservative and you could definitely push the boundaries a bit more to bring it to life. The essential elements are there, with some careful work with automation and some alternative EQ decisions, you could make this a more powerful mix. I've not yet uploaded my mix, almost finished. I've been offline for a while and catching up on some cool threads such as this one! Cheers, Mick.

[Shul]

Hi Shul, I like the overall balance you've achieved with your final mix. The synths are a bit loud for this genre perhaps and the vocals are a touch dull, but these are pretty minor things in context. If anything, I think perhaps the mix is a bit conservative and you could definitely push the boundaries a bit more to bring it to life. The essential elements are there, with some careful work with automation and some alternative EQ decisions, you could make this a more powerful mix. I've not yet uploaded my mix, almost finished. I've been offline for a while and catching up on some cool threads such as this one! Cheers, Mick.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I agree the guitar tones are lacking here as well as the bass being a bit too prominent doesnt help. I have not touched this mix for a while.. But hearing it again I've come to think of some specific changes I can do. Perhaps I will open it later and fix it.
I'll be sure to give my feedback on your mix when you post it. Thanks for the comment.
Sauliito aka shul

[Shul]

Guys.. Final mix 2 added. I think it sounds better than the previous ones.

[mick2015]

Guys.. Final mix 2 added. I think it sounds better than the previous ones.

Hi Shul, nice work on the latest mix, sound better to me. The only things that I would possibly change is increasing the sustain on the lead guitars (or use a different type of distortion) and the vocals have a resonant frequency that seems to pop through every so often. Somewhere in the low-mids to my ears. Also, I've just uploaded my mix. Cheers, Mick.

[matiasgodoy399]

Hello Shul,
I really like the vocals on some parts of your mix! and the use of some effects too. What I really think is wrong is the screaming part, I think it came offtime in the multitrack. I found a way that they sound on time, don´t know if it´s the idea but, well it´s at least my idea and I really think it suits better, you can listen on my mix of this song.

I can´t listen loud right now so next time I will be able to get into your work better. Keep on, this mix is really getting a lot better on each delivery!

[Shul]

Thanks for the comment guys... Noted. I shall look around next time I open this project.